--- Log opened Mon Apr 26 00:00:39 2004
04:10:57 -!- brx_ [~as@pD9EAB0DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #corewars
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10:36:58 -!- Mizcu [Mizcu@dsl-hkigw4d29.dial.inet.fi] has joined #corewars
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17:39:38 -!- Metcalf [~John@217.158.137.194] has joined #corewars
17:39:42 #corewars: < Metcalf> Hi
17:41:03 -!- Metcalf [~John@217.158.137.194] has quit [brb]
17:42:54 -!- CoreChild [~John@217.158.137.194] has joined #corewars
18:24:41 #corewars: < brx> ich mach den sekte track, ich fick das rapgeschaeft, du hast keinen flow, keinen text, du kriegst den rest du keck. ich mach den beat hart, heute heisst es ich und du, komm mit deiner kindercrew ich fick auf euer interview.
18:29:56 #corewars: < CoreChild> Sorry, I'll talk to you shall I? ;-)
18:29:59 #corewars: < CoreChild> Hi Brx
18:33:23 #corewars: < CoreChild> Hmmm...
18:38:07 #corewars: < brx> hi :)
18:38:14 #corewars: < CoreChild> Greetings...
18:38:15 #corewars: < brx> sorry, was afk :)
18:38:42 #corewars: < CoreChild> Erm, bad news, I'm just about to go, 2 minutes left :-(
18:38:59 #corewars:  * CoreChild wonders if anyone but himself considers that bad news
18:39:01 #corewars: < brx> oh :(
18:39:11 #corewars: < brx> oh well i do
18:39:20 #corewars: < brx> i wanted to ask you about switches etc :(
18:41:58 #corewars: < CoreChild> Sorry :-(
18:42:02 #corewars: < CoreChild> What kind of switches?
18:42:40 #corewars: < brx> aaah too laaate
18:42:46 #corewars: < brx> not enough time
18:42:47 #corewars: < brx> :)
18:42:55 #corewars: < CoreChild> Will be back tomorrow.
18:44:22 #corewars: < brx> okay
18:44:24 #corewars: < brx> until then
18:45:35 #corewars: < CoreChild> Cheers
18:45:38 #corewars:  * CoreChild waves
18:45:42 #corewars:  * brx waves
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20:47:56 -!- Fizmo [~fizmo_mas@pD9E6ED91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #corewars
20:48:08 #corewars: < Fizmo> heyaaaaahhhhhaaa
20:50:25 #corewars: < pkhuong> hi
20:50:33 #corewars: < pkhuong> heh, this is sick
20:51:04 #corewars: < Fizmo> hi
20:51:21 #corewars: < pkhuong> i think a loop can be more efficient than unrolling it simply bc of the cost of brnach mipredictions.
20:51:22 #corewars: < pkhuong> :(
20:52:01 #corewars: < Fizmo> uhh?
20:52:19 #corewars: < pkhuong> yes, i originally wanted to walk a tree directly with CALLs on x86
20:52:25 #corewars: < Fizmo> you're throwing me right into icy water ;-)
20:53:37 #corewars: < pkhuong> but traversing it w/ a loop seems to be more efficient in my situation.
20:55:25 #corewars: < Fizmo> you're actually working on a stone/imp?
20:55:42 #corewars:  * Fizmo is still joking ;-)
20:55:45 #corewars: < pkhuong> :p
20:57:11 #corewars: < Fizmo> hrmm, my new stone/imp didn't score that nice :-/
20:57:30 #corewars: < Fizmo> I think I'll go for a stone/clear/imp
20:58:30 #corewars: < pkhuong> another stone/paper?
20:59:01 #corewars: < Fizmo> I actually have two on 94nop hill
20:59:43 #corewars: < Fizmo> also two paper/imps
21:00:11 #corewars: < Fizmo> and two scanner
21:00:16 #corewars: < Fizmo> and a kind of dodger
21:02:31 #corewars: < Fizmo> the time is right for a stone/paper but the actual papers and stone/papers are so nicely anti-imp that it's really hard to survive
21:02:43 #corewars: < Fizmo> ups stone/imp I meant
21:03:49 #corewars: < pkhuong> do you tihnk there might be a better incendiary?
21:04:25 #corewars: < Fizmo> hmm, maybe. Do you have one?
21:04:33 #corewars: < pkhuong> no, i'm pondering though
21:05:09 #corewars: < pkhuong> sometimes it's not worth the complexity too. I think we had a working anti-QS bombing routine, but the wasted time made it pointless
21:05:33 #corewars: < pkhuong> (it worked in pure QS Vs QS, but in real battles, it lost points comapred to the original :/)
21:05:42 #corewars: < Fizmo> :-(
21:05:55 #corewars: < pkhuong> it was with grabek i think
21:06:13 #corewars: < Fizmo> Well, the simple things seems the most successfull things
21:06:22 #corewars: < pkhuong> we scanned until we had a probable jmp and bombed around the area where it pointed :/
21:07:52 #corewars: < Fizmo> hmm, alot of nice ideas are later lacking on success
21:08:07 #corewars: < pkhuong> IE, CIA
21:08:14 #corewars: < pkhuong> :p
21:08:20 #corewars: < Fizmo> :)
21:08:24 #corewars: < pkhuong> that's probably one of the nicest idea that didn't pan out at all
21:08:45 #corewars: < pkhuong> the epithome of good ideas gone bad ;)
21:09:33 #corewars: < Fizmo> It's true for 94nop, but maybe on other enviroment it could be a successfull strategy
21:10:08 -!- Jeff_K [~sascha@dial-213-168-95-164.netcologne.de] has joined #corewars
21:10:18 #corewars: < Fizmo> I recently rediscovered a nearly forgotten strategy and I was able to get it on the hill
21:10:21 #corewars: < pkhuong> iirc, the problem with incendiary was that the spl didn't come in fast enough, right?
21:10:28 #corewars: < pkhuong> dodger? yeah, nice one :)
21:10:51 #corewars: < Fizmo> Now, together with Roy Bottomless Pit is really doing well on the hill
21:10:59 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Good Eve gentlemen
21:11:01 #corewars: < Fizmo> and also on the multi-hill ;-)
21:11:08 #corewars: < Fizmo> Hi Sascha
21:11:14 #corewars: < pkhuong> hey
21:11:23 #corewars: < Jeff_K> 146 ;-)
21:11:33 #corewars: < Fizmo> woow
21:11:43 #corewars: < Fizmo> That's really nice
21:11:46 #corewars: < Jeff_K> You know Chris...23 hours, and 4500 Randry's
21:12:00 #corewars: < Fizmo> Pleazzzzee sent it to the hill
21:12:22 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Shall i spend 24 hours more or go to the more spezialized optimizing ?
21:12:52 #corewars: < Fizmo> Just send it to see if it works as expected on 94nop
21:13:19 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Can i send it with ;kill and get the scores ?
21:13:48 #corewars: < pkhuong> redcode ...-test
21:13:50 #corewars: < Fizmo> The tweaking could go on, but then you know if you go for optimizing to be koth or not
21:14:09 #corewars: < Fizmo> doesn't work on koth, isn't it?
21:14:21 #corewars: < Jeff_K> test was for pizza-hill, wasn't ?
21:14:30 #corewars: < Fizmo> yes
21:15:02 #corewars: < Fizmo> I think koth didn't offer that option, so either send it to the hill or kill one of your warriors
21:15:26 #corewars: < Fizmo> kill or not to kill is now the question
21:15:58 #corewars: < Fizmo> cool. 146 is really impressive
21:16:50 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Hmm, i send it as test...moment please
21:18:38 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Ok, uploaded, 
21:19:02 #corewars: < Fizmo> pk: when can we expect your new warrior? ;-)
21:19:10 #corewars: < pkhuong> i dunno
21:19:17 #corewars: < pkhuong> i usually try something at a rate of 1/week
21:19:31 #corewars: < pkhuong> and in the alst 8 months, it's all gone directly to the trash
21:19:36 #corewars: < pkhuong> :'(
21:19:39 #corewars: < Fizmo> ohh
21:19:50 #corewars: < Fizmo> Maybe a new team warrior?
21:19:57 #corewars: < pkhuong> i think i'll work on an optimisation program soon, bc i've a feeling my onstants always suck :)
21:20:13 #corewars: < Fizmo> Sascha and I can make a koth of any trash ;-)
21:20:17 #corewars: < pkhuong> lol
21:20:29 #corewars: < Jeff_K> rotfl
21:20:36 #corewars: < pkhuong> well, i should have more time now that i know i'm accepted in dentistry!
21:20:37 #corewars: < pkhuong> *yay*
21:20:57 #corewars: < Fizmo> 'cause we a the cw ultramizer :-P
21:21:06 #corewars: < pkhuong> i got an unconditional acceptation at montreal, and i've an interiew at laval (near my home) in 10 days :)
21:21:07 #corewars: < pkhuong> hehe
21:21:19 #corewars: < Jeff_K> fight#
21:21:36 #corewars: < pkhuong> p2p KotH would be so much mroe responsive :/
21:21:52 #corewars: < pkhuong> lesse what i got this week
21:21:54 #corewars: < Jeff_K> 155 scores against SoV, wow
21:22:17 #corewars: < Fizmo> outch against SBD
21:22:34 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Thats the Moorestyle Paper, Stone is the same.
21:23:05 #corewars: < pkhuong> Fizmo: re cosntants, eg, it's John who did all the work on the constants for nPaper ;)
21:23:43 #corewars: < pkhuong> all i did was suggest the djn line (which scored lower) and the bombing (which was changed so as not to basically leave mov 0, 1 imps)
21:23:54 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Not bad, 15, Hadry now 20, shit
21:23:59 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Hydra
21:24:09 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Ups, sorry German
21:24:35 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Your opinion Fiz'
21:24:50 #corewars: < Fizmo> I am still datting the hill
21:25:43 #corewars: < Fizmo> As I've expected your entry is better than Arctica which was only at 143
21:26:47 #corewars: < Fizmo> but for a stone imp you're not that deadly against scanner than I've expected
21:26:55 #corewars: < Fizmo> stone/paper I meant
21:27:19 #corewars: < pkhuong> well, wouldn't stone/papers tend to be more vulnerable to scanners anyway?
21:27:21 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Hmm, what can i do, optimized Stone-constants alone
21:27:33 #corewars: < Jeff_K> give more processes to the Stone ?
21:27:49 #corewars: < Fizmo> surprisingly you're scoring very nice against the only oneshot on the hill
21:27:55 #corewars: < Jeff_K> I want to redesign the bootstrap, so i can play with processbalance
21:27:58 #corewars: < Fizmo> really strange
21:28:34 #corewars: < Fizmo> hmm, in general it's the same process balance than in Arctica
21:29:02 #corewars: < brx> i wonder how roy's oneshot entered the hill.
21:30:12 #corewars: < Fizmo> pk: stone/paper should score nicely against scanner but lose against oneshots
21:30:41 #corewars: < Fizmo> but Sascha's s/p scores really different
21:30:43 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Hmm, and i optimzed against Stone swith B-imps and Blurstyles.
21:31:09 #corewars: < pkhuong> only one data point :p
21:32:21 #corewars: < Fizmo> hmm, maybe use nPaper's snippet with jmz instead of djn
21:32:25 #corewars: < Jeff_K> But with 13 Points the Hill scoring-range is very small
21:33:06 #corewars: < pkhuong> Fiz: re the clear paper, aren't you mroe vulnerable to scanners since each and every trail has live processes?
21:33:50 #corewars: < Fizmo> hmm, it's hard to say. It depends on how well it is optimized
21:34:29 #corewars: < pkhuong> i tried killing off grand parents, but it's even weaker, it seems :/
21:34:55 #corewars: < Fizmo> I think that it can score better against oneshots, but don't ask me why
21:35:07 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Hmm, i think i'll try the jmz-snippet, look if it's more stable, and i have three mov bomb,>target, i think i replace one by mov.i #1,<1
21:35:36 #corewars: < Fizmo> I was also working on kill parents, but that goes on cost of a good core coverage
21:36:06 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Uff, youre dating shows the truth about my Warriors...;-(
21:36:19 #corewars: < Fizmo> you could do all three possible types
21:36:28 #corewars: < pkhuong> lol, kill a and b imps :)
21:36:38 #corewars: < Fizmo> first is mov.i #1, {1
21:36:54 #corewars: < Fizmo> second mov.i #bStep, <1
21:37:31 #corewars: < Fizmo> third could be mov.i {x, y
21:37:43 #corewars: < Fizmo> or mov.i bomb, y
21:38:16 #corewars: < Fizmo> Sascha maybe try dat Jedimp bomb instead of the anti-imp bomb
21:38:41 #corewars: < Fizmo> bomb    dat     >1              , }1
21:38:55 #corewars: < Jeff_K> When i wnat to kill, i must use passwort too ? How i have to write that line
21:39:02 #corewars: < Fizmo> this one seems doing really well against scanner
21:39:19 #corewars: < Jeff_K> dat <1, {1 ?
21:39:21 #corewars: < Fizmo> you don't need a password but the same e-mail adress
21:40:00 #corewars: < Fizmo> >}
21:40:38 #corewars: < Fizmo> 'cause that could lead into a 'pseudo' forward-clear
21:40:47 #corewars: < Fizmo> I think so
21:41:01 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Stop djn.train or change clear-direction ?
21:41:34 #corewars: < Fizmo> makes also suicidal to clears if the pointer is hit
21:42:29 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Hmm, i've stopped the allover optimizing and let work him on bootdis' gaps over the Night. Tomorrow i will change it's bombing character...
21:43:06 #corewars: < Fizmo> but then you have to optimize again right from the beginning
21:43:49 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Yes, i know, but a man must do what a man had to do ;-)
21:44:00 #corewars: < Fizmo> :)
21:44:06 #corewars: < Jeff_K> s/man/redcoder/g
21:44:11 #corewars: < Jeff_K> ;-)
21:44:52 #corewars: < Jeff_K> And i will try to split the 10liner into 2*5 in the source and boot with 5 procs, so i can insert more gaps, like SoV
21:45:17 #corewars: < Fizmo> heh, that would be cool
21:45:37 #corewars: < Fizmo> but try to be not too experimental, Sascha
21:46:13 #corewars: < Jeff_K> hmm, i have learned my lesson, not to much tricks.
22:25:41 #corewars: < brx> what's a good mod-5 step?
22:25:43 #corewars: < brx> brb pizza.
22:26:27 #corewars: < Jeff_K> do you know the tool corestep ?
22:27:06 #corewars: < Jeff_K> sascha@linux:~/Projekte/optimax> corestep 8000 -m 5 -b 10
22:27:07 #corewars: < Jeff_K> corestep v3: Non-simulating optimal step finder by Jay Han, 5/13/1994.
22:27:07 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Coresize 8000.  Mod-5.  Maximum 4000.  Best 10.  Scoring: classic.
22:27:07 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Step 2365  Score:  21.13
22:27:08 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Step 3315  Score:  21.13
22:27:08 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Step 2895  Score:  20.50
22:27:09 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Step 3095  Score:  20.50
22:27:11 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Step 3065  Score:  20.46
22:27:13 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Step 3615  Score:  20.46
22:27:15 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Step 2835  Score:  20.44
22:27:17 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Step 3485  Score:  20.44
22:27:19 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Step 2245  Score:  20.34
22:27:21 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Step 3595  Score:  20.20
22:28:15 #corewars: < brx> oh
22:28:27 #corewars: < brx> thank you :)
22:28:48 #corewars: < Fizmo> hey, cool
22:32:21 #corewars: < pkhuong> heh
22:32:30 #corewars:  * pkhuong needs to find binaries for corestep
22:32:41 #corewars: < pkhuong> or i could compile to cygwin, but i'm lazy :D
22:32:47 #corewars: < Jeff_K> for which os
22:32:49 #corewars: < brx> lol
22:32:49 #corewars: < pkhuong> win32
22:32:54 #corewars: < brx> watch this!
22:34:19 #corewars: < Jeff_K> hmm, i have a look at my win-hd's see if i can get the bins, moment please
22:34:44 #corewars:  * brx is waiting for christians warrior to end its run
22:34:46 #corewars: < pkhuong> ty
22:34:57 #corewars: < brx> so a special version of enigma can bite the dust :)
22:35:06 #corewars: < Fizmo> Heya, brx for 94nop
22:35:13 #corewars: < brx> lol
22:35:31 -!- jaska [~jaska@aalto.netsafir.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
22:35:42 #corewars: < brx> Fizmo: i have tried more seriously before and i failed. i should invest some time into cw
22:35:54 #corewars:  * Fizmo is swinging a big brx flag
22:36:14 #corewars: < brx> ;)
22:36:28 #corewars: < Fizmo> with with letter on white background
22:36:41 #corewars: < Fizmo> erhmm, white letter I meant
22:36:49 #corewars: < brx> heh
22:36:54 #corewars: < Fizmo> ;-)
22:37:25 #corewars: < Fizmo> Just give your warrior to me or Sascha and we make a koth for you
22:37:44 #corewars: < Fizmo> for just 5 $ per point on 94nop
22:37:49 #corewars: < brx> hahaha
22:38:34 #corewars: < Fizmo> hey, that's a special offer valid only today !?!
22:38:38 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Paul, where i can send the binaries. ?
22:38:39 #corewars: < Fizmo> :)
22:39:29 #corewars: < brx> lol new koth ^^
22:39:48 -!- jaska [~jaska@aalto.netsafir.com] has joined #corewars
22:40:07 #corewars: < brx> hi jaska 
22:40:12 #corewars: < Fizmo> hi
22:42:58 #corewars: < jaska> arr!
22:42:58 #corewars: < jaska> bloody disconnects
22:43:40 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Enigma is a ... ?
22:44:52 #corewars: < Fizmo> paper/imps without a qscanner?
22:45:01 #corewars: < brx> no
22:45:04 #corewars: < Jeff_K> seems to be !
22:45:15 #corewars: < brx> you got mail?
22:45:24 #corewars: < Fizmo> paper with a separate imp-launcher
22:45:49 #corewars: < brx> *shakes his head*
22:46:05 #corewars: < Fizmo> fizmo@corewar.info
22:46:21 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Add a qscanner and then 120 are possible i think...
22:46:37 #corewars: < brx> aaah a whopping 102
22:46:50 #corewars: < brx> Fizmo: hm it's enigma with a stone attached :)
22:47:13 #corewars: < Jeff_K> heheh, Maelstrom at 5th, poor Roy .
22:47:24 #corewars: < Fizmo> ahh, now I understand
22:48:00 #corewars: < Fizmo> But the stone seems not having enough processes on the beginning, so it isn't very dominant
22:48:51 #corewars: < brx> hmmm
22:49:00 #corewars: < brx> i will tweak a little
22:49:16 #corewars: < Fizmo> and maybe add some anti-imp to your paper
22:49:34 #corewars: < Fizmo> that will give you some additional points from the stoen/imps
22:50:05 #corewars: < brx> hmm there should be some anti imp. what did you have in mind
22:50:21 #corewars: < brx> i mean, antiimp is present already ^^
22:51:13 #corewars: < Fizmo> ohh, not clearly seen from the results
22:51:24 #corewars: < brx> hmhm
22:51:27 #corewars: < Fizmo> Maybe some optimizations of the paper could help
22:51:48 #corewars: < brx> not enough
22:52:02 #corewars: < Jeff_K> some time ago you would write an small optimizer for papersteps, what happened with this ?
22:52:11 #corewars: < Fizmo> heh, a good optimizations is essential for a paper
22:52:15 #corewars: < brx> the bruteforcer?
22:52:40 #corewars: < brx> Jeff_K: i deleted it ^^
22:52:54 #corewars: < Jeff_K> yeah, not all, but ca. 2000-3000 pure random constants set can give you a good performance on the nop
22:52:57 #corewars: < brx> Fizmo: i know, i tweaked it by hand
22:53:02 #corewars: < Jeff_K> why delting it...
22:53:34 #corewars: < Fizmo> For hand selected constants it scores surprisingly well
22:53:36 #corewars: < brx> ... because i didn't like the code
22:53:49 #corewars: < pkhuong> i wodner what's better between  annealing, random & GA...
22:53:51 #corewars: < Fizmo> so, some optimization could really do wonders to the scores
22:54:21 #corewars: < Jeff_K> For Papers all is in the constants you must know !
22:54:24 #corewars: < brx> Fizmo: i am not sure about that. you have seen enigma. but i'd be surprised if you could remember it.
22:54:24 #corewars: < Fizmo> hmm, Hard to say. I've made so far experiences with random only
22:54:50 #corewars: < Fizmo> ok, just send it to me and I'll have a look to the code
22:55:01 #corewars: < brx> enigma is suicidal, and lays antiimp bomb carpets. the bombs are somewhat rusty.
22:55:25 #corewars: < Fizmo> I am sure that it don't need much modification on the code, just some other constants
22:55:43 #corewars: < brx> hmmm okay one sec
22:55:58 #corewars: < Fizmo> and I'll get it at least very close to the 94nop hill
22:57:11 #corewars: < Jeff_K> remember what happened with cocademon...
22:58:17 #corewars: < Mizcu> *YAWN*
22:58:24 #corewars: < Mizcu> time to go get some sleep
22:58:39 #corewars: < Fizmo> where you sent brx
22:58:46 -!- Mizcu [Mizcu@dsl-hkigw4d29.dial.inet.fi] has quit []
22:59:56 #corewars: < brx> hmmm still trying something
23:02:12 #corewars: < Fizmo> ok, it's time for me to go
23:02:24 #corewars: < Fizmo> I am await Enigma, brx ;-)
23:02:33 #corewars: < brx> aaaa
23:02:49 #corewars:  * Fizmo waves
23:02:50 #corewars: < brx> Fizmo: next time! promised! i feel a bit uneasy sending warriors away :)
23:03:00 #corewars: < brx> bye!
23:03:19 #corewars: < Fizmo> bye
23:03:29 #corewars: < Fizmo> bye, Sascha
23:03:39 -!- Fizmo [~fizmo_mas@pD9E6ED91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []
23:06:22 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Hmm, time to go sleep....cu
23:06:26 #corewars:  * Jeff_K waves
23:06:31 -!- Jeff_K [~sascha@dial-213-168-95-164.netcologne.de] has left #corewars []
23:12:58 #corewars: < brx> /tmp/ccoKiPHm.o(.text+0x5ad): In function `main':
23:13:00 #corewars: < brx> : undefined reference to `log'
23:13:05 #corewars: < brx> heh.
23:41:51 #corewars: < brx> pkhuong: there?
--- Log closed Tue Apr 27 00:00:53 2004