--- Log opened Sun Apr 11 00:00:21 2004
02:11:34 !irc.koth.org *** Looking up your hostname...
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02:11:35 !irc.koth.org *** Your host is irc.koth.org[216.231.108.170/6667], running version 2.8/hybrid-6.3.1
02:11:35 -!- Mode change [+i] for user jk_log
02:11:35 -!- jk_log [~jakub@134.gymko.ba.gtsi.sk] has joined #corewars
04:56:13 #corewars: < bvowk_> hrm
05:06:26 -!- pkhuong [Pikachiu@modemcable197.159-130-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #corewars
05:06:28 #corewars: < pkhuong> lo
05:09:42 #corewars: < bvowk_> greets pk
05:09:45 #corewars: < bvowk_> how's you doing?
05:10:15 #corewars: < pkhuong> not accepted in med at laval, nor in dentistry at mcgill
05:10:18 #corewars: < pkhuong> bad week.
05:13:13 #corewars: < bvowk_> dentistry/
05:13:26 #corewars:  * bvowk_ wouldn't wanna be a destist
05:13:29 #corewars: < pkhuong> :)
05:13:37 #corewars: < pkhuong> however, i discovered gnu lightning
05:13:56 #corewars:  * pkhuong is waiting for joonas to come online to discuss something that's a bit forth like ;)
05:14:01 #corewars: < pkhuong> (linked to lightning)
05:15:32 #corewars: < bvowk_> I got my first stone imp today
05:15:39 #corewars: < bvowk_> its a fairly solid one too
05:15:43 #corewars: < pkhuong> cool
05:15:43 #corewars: < pkhuong> link?
05:16:13 #corewars: < bvowk_> naw, I'll keep this one under my hat for now.. i'm hoping it'll become an imp ring :)
05:17:29 #corewars: < pkhuong> :)
05:17:35 #corewars: < pkhuong> oh, mov 0,1 imp?
05:17:38 #corewars: < bvowk_> I've been working on an openbsd driver today..
05:17:44 #corewars: < pkhuong> going from that to a ring is a huge leap
05:18:47 #corewars: < bvowk_> its true, but I've got a huge wad of processing 
05:20:20 #corewars: < bvowk_> but I'v gotten imp rings before.. but they don't survive when the stones take over, but if i can coax both of them into one warrior :)
05:20:25 #corewars: < pkhuong> hehe
05:21:08 #corewars: < bvowk_> i'm up to 105 Ghz :)
05:23:25 #corewars: < pkhuong> how much of it spent on communication?
05:23:55 #corewars: < bvowk_> virtually none
05:24:43 #corewars: < pkhuong> cool
05:26:50 #corewars:  * brx_ waves
05:27:05 #corewars: < bvowk_> greets brx
05:27:18 #corewars: < bvowk_> the algorithm for evolving is pretty communication averse
05:27:31 #corewars: < bvowk_> only talks when it needs more work...
05:27:57 #corewars: < brx_> pkhuong: is it only me or does graham hate common lisp
05:30:17 #corewars: < pkhuong> doubt it
05:30:29 #corewars: < pkhuong> he jsut beleives arc can be better by doing away with th ehistoric artefacts
05:30:37 #corewars:  * brx_ nods
05:31:06 #corewars: < brx_> it's just that that he states how common lisp "sucks" from a hacker's standpoint
05:31:57 #corewars: < pkhuong> ?
05:32:04 #corewars: < pkhuong> <- blind to CL's weaknesses ;)
05:32:14 #corewars: < bvowk_> pk is a CL whore
05:32:23 #corewars: < brx_> well such as the long operator names..
05:32:25 #corewars: < brx_> ^^
05:32:39 #corewars: < pkhuong> bvowk: hehe :)
05:32:46 #corewars: < brx_> prefix notation for mathematical expressions i think.
05:32:50 #corewars: < pkhuong> seriously, i'll start working on low level stuff soon
05:32:51 #corewars: < brx_> lack of libraries.
05:32:59 #corewars: < pkhuong> brx_: auto completion
05:33:02 #corewars: < pkhuong> prefix is good
05:33:07 #corewars: < pkhuong> you get your ehad around it, like RPN
05:33:16 #corewars: < brx_> pkhuong: see "for mathematical expressions"
05:33:26 #corewars: < pkhuong> libraries are being worked on right now, nor is it inherent to the language
05:33:37 #corewars: < brx_> i never had a problem with prefix. even when it came to math. apparently graham does.
05:33:57 #corewars: < brx_> pkhuong: true again of course.
05:34:04 #corewars: < brx_> pkhuong: how about common lisps lack of terseness
05:35:32 #corewars: < pkhuong> eg?
05:36:13 #corewars: < brx_> parenthesis. many are in fact redundant to be written
05:36:43 #corewars: < pkhuong> redundant?
05:36:48 #corewars: < brx_> graham seems to be fan of more syntax. something quite a few lisp zealots didn't like
05:36:53 #corewars: < brx_> pkhuong: to the programmer.
05:37:10 #corewars: < pkhuong> never. It's there to construct the tree, obv, there must be sometihng else to specify the shape of the tree if you don't use that many parenthesis...
05:37:21 #corewars: < pkhuong> reading can be hard w/ badly formatted code, though
05:37:22 #corewars: < pkhuong> :(
05:37:24 #corewars: < brx_> no, sorry, you don't understand.
05:37:43 #corewars: < pkhuong> mkk
05:37:57 #corewars: < brx_> it's about ambiguity inside the programmer's head ^^
05:38:05 #corewars: < brx_> he reads his lisp code by indentation anyway
05:38:12 #corewars: < brx_> most of the parens are redundant to him
05:38:17 #corewars: < brx_> the impl can take care of the rest.
05:38:42 #corewars: < brx_> graham suggests the "new lisp" to move into the direction of python
05:38:58 #corewars: < brx_> at least, he did that.
05:39:19 #corewars: < pkhuong> oh, he wants significant whitespace?
05:39:31 #corewars: < brx_> exactly.
05:39:57 #corewars: < pkhuong> i prefer parenthesis, and having my editor indent correctly based on them :)
05:40:00 #corewars: < brx_> under the hood it would be s-expressions
05:40:11 #corewars: < brx_> of course
05:40:11 #corewars: < pkhuong> what's your take, though?
05:40:29 #corewars: < brx_> my... "take" ?
05:41:09 #corewars: < pkhuong> opinion and why?
05:41:27 #corewars: < brx_> actually, i never had problems with the parentheses.. nor did i have problems with prefix notation etc. i think they make programs look much more clean. i do have problems with the common lisp operator names
05:41:55 #corewars: < brx_> you say autocompletion
05:41:59 #corewars: < pkhuong> cdr, car, progn, etc?
05:42:09 #corewars: < brx_> heh, yes that is terse
05:42:47 #corewars: < brx_> we are talking "multiple-value-bind"
05:42:48 #corewars: < brx_> or
05:43:03 #corewars: < brx_> "nstring-upcase"
05:43:15 #corewars: < brx_> "position-if-not"
05:43:31 #corewars: < pkhuong> as long as it's all letters i ahve no problem.
05:43:42 #corewars: < brx_> "make-instance"
05:43:44 #corewars: < brx_> stuff like that
05:43:56 #corewars: < pkhuong> stuff like braces and brackets slow me down much mroe than typing whole words, which i've been traiend to do throughout my life :)
05:44:21 #corewars: < brx_> sure, we don't need braces and brackets though
05:44:32 #corewars: < brx_> what we need is shorter operators
05:44:33 #corewars: < brx_> :P
05:44:44 #corewars: < brx_> hell we can even let go of some parenthesis
05:45:17 #corewars: < pkhuong> lol.
05:45:20 #corewars: < brx_> and introduce infix notation (in some situations) and a bit of syntax (array indexing..)
05:45:36 #corewars: < pkhuong> ared is so clean!  :)
05:46:02 #corewars: < brx_> yes it is clean ^^ but it is not terse :)
05:46:27 #corewars:  * brx_ sighs
05:46:49 #corewars: < brx_> how long has arc been under development
05:47:09 #corewars: < pkhuong> if we drop optional arugments, we can easily drop a lot of parenthesis, but that'D make the language nearly read-only.
05:47:33 #corewars: < pkhuong> brx_: a couple years now, but there's a version floating around for those who suscribed to the list.
05:48:29 #corewars: < brx_> couple of years *nods*
05:51:12 #corewars:  * pkhuong is watching spellbound.
05:51:14 #corewars: < pkhuong> SCARY :(
05:51:22 #corewars: < brx_> what is spellbound
05:51:34 #corewars: < brx_> "It could be that in Java's case I'm mistaken. It could be that a language promoted by one big company to undermine another, designed by a committee for a "mainstream" audience, hyped to the skies, and beloved of the DoD, happens nonetheless to be a clean, beautiful, powerful language that I would love programming in. It could be, but it seems very unlikely."
05:52:32 #corewars: < pkhuong> a documentary on a national spelling bee...
05:52:42 #corewars: < brx_> ..
05:53:07 #corewars: < brx_> i see.
05:55:21 #corewars: < brx_> pkhuong: what's so scary about that bee
05:56:21 #corewars: < pkhuong> the compêtitors are fricken psychopats (either in making or actual), and soa re their parents.
05:57:16 #corewars: < brx_> bee.
05:57:21 #corewars: < brx_> a spelling bee
05:57:31 #corewars: < brx_> wtf are you talking about
05:57:32 #corewars:  * bvowk_ wonders
05:58:00 #corewars: < pkhuong> spelling bee = spelling contest.
05:58:13 #corewars: < brx_> .
05:59:08 #corewars: < brx_> good night.
05:59:14 #corewars: < brx_> it is 6 am here i think
05:59:34 #corewars: < pkhuong> heh nite!
05:59:43 #corewars: < brx_> :)
06:01:47 #corewars: < pkhuong> bvowk: what do you think of passing a function pointer [compiled closure] (which returns everything) instead of a value+type tag?
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14:05:10 #corewars: < grabek> phew
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16:04:41 #corewars: < bvowk_> hrm
16:06:48 #corewars: < pkhuong> ?
16:10:42 #corewars: < bvowk_> whats up pk?
16:20:52 #corewars: < grabek> question
16:22:25 #corewars: < pkhuong> watching 21 grams...
16:22:36 #corewars: < pkhuong> another effed up movie :/
16:23:00 #corewars: < grabek> does anyone around here know pspace?
16:23:37 #corewars: < pkhuong> ugh
16:23:45 #corewars: < pkhuong> i've never really understood it
16:24:02 #corewars: < brx_> sureyou have
16:24:05 #corewars: < brx_> you just have not used it
16:24:10 #corewars: < grabek> i think i've found a bug in beppe's code
16:24:22 #corewars: < grabek>         _RES    equ 0           ;here pmars loads results
16:24:22 #corewars: < grabek>         _STR    equ 1           ;here I store my strategy
16:24:22 #corewars: < grabek> res     ldp.ab  _RES,   #0      ;load result last match
16:24:22 #corewars: < grabek> str     ldp.a   _STR,   str1    ;load strategy in use
16:24:22 #corewars: < grabek>         sne.ab  #0,     res     ;check result, win or tie OK
16:24:24 #corewars: < grabek> lost    add.a   #1,     str1    ;lost change
16:24:26 #corewars: < grabek>         mod.a   #2,     str1    ;secure jump
16:24:29 #corewars: < grabek> win     stp.ab  str1,   _STR    ;save strategy
16:24:31 #corewars: < grabek> str1    jmp     @0,     juliet
16:24:34 #corewars: < grabek>         dat     0,      paper
16:24:55 #corewars: < grabek> `str' and `win' lines
16:25:39 #corewars: < grabek> ldp.a, as i presume, loads 1st cell of p-space into A field of str1 line
16:25:44 #corewars: < grabek> this is incorrect
16:27:01 #corewars: < grabek> in `win' line A field of str1 is loaded into 1st cell of pspace
16:27:03 #corewars: < grabek> stupid
16:27:17 #corewars: < grabek> as the A field is equal 0
16:27:22 #corewars: < grabek> am i missing something?
16:27:50 #corewars: < pkhuong> dunno...
16:28:08 #corewars: < pkhuong> look it up, pspace opcodes have weird addresing
16:31:02 #corewars: < grabek> ok this works fine
16:31:05 #corewars: < grabek> stupid me
17:12:25 #corewars: < grabek> Shrek on TV
18:18:17 #corewars:  * bvowk_ wonders
18:19:17 #corewars:  * bvowk_ just finished watching solaris
18:21:01 #corewars: < bvowk_> wasn't worth the time I don't think
18:24:51 #corewars: < grabek> read the book
18:25:37 #corewars: < bvowk_> so I'm told
18:26:27 #corewars: < bvowk_> hrm.
18:26:31 #corewars: < bvowk_> evolver wedged
18:26:34 #corewars: < bvowk_> stupid server.
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19:56:52 #corewars: < bvowk> hrm
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--- Log closed Mon Apr 12 00:00:35 2004