--- Log opened Wed Mar 24 00:00:34 2004
02:56:49 -!- bvowk [~bvowk@h24-67-137-90.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #corewars
02:56:52 #corewars: < bvowk> joonas!
02:57:52 #corewars:  * bvowk gets excited about dual core opterons
02:58:00 #corewars: < joonas> hi
02:58:20 #corewars: < joonas> wow, dual core eh?
02:58:47 #corewars: < bvowk> yeah.. dual core
02:58:54 #corewars:  * joonas is making the world on sal
02:58:54 #corewars: < bvowk> that'd be pretty spiffy
02:59:10 #corewars:  * joonas is reminded why he likes debian so much...
02:59:17 #corewars: < bvowk> they're talking about how in ~8-12 months you should be able to get 8 way opterons in 1u :)
02:59:26 #corewars: < joonas> of course debian won't go near opterons or years yet. :/
02:59:27 #corewars: < bvowk> joonas: you could do a binary upgrade
02:59:43 #corewars: < joonas> really?  how does that work?
02:59:53 #corewars: < bvowk> you use sysinstall
03:00:07 #corewars: < bvowk> I've never tried doing it remotely tho
03:00:16 #corewars: < joonas> I'm sure that wasn't in the handbook
03:00:25 #corewars: < joonas> oh, wait.
03:00:26 #corewars: < joonas> nevermind.
03:00:32 #corewars:  * joonas looks sheepish
03:00:42 #corewars: < bvowk> its pretty slick when upgrading via CD
03:00:53 #corewars: < bvowk> so hows it going?
03:01:07 #corewars: < joonas> fine, thanks.
03:01:11 #corewars: < bvowk> I got funding to completely wi-fi my whole building :)
03:01:18 #corewars: < bvowk> just came through today :)
03:01:22 #corewars: < joonas> got lots to do and am actually getting it done
03:01:24 #corewars: < joonas> ooh..
03:01:27 #corewars: < bvowk> crisco access points all through :)
03:01:35 #corewars: < bvowk> actually getting it done?
03:01:42 #corewars: < bvowk> jesus.. aren't you special? :)
03:01:59 #corewars: < bvowk> must not be at a university :)
03:02:00 #corewars: < joonas> :) yeah, been a bit lazy of late.
03:02:06 #corewars: < joonas> lol, no.
03:02:48 #corewars: < joonas> so the wi-fi's are coming into the math dep?
03:02:51 #corewars: < joonas> or some other building?
03:04:00 #corewars: < bvowk> well, its kinda there already, but the previous access points didn't work worth a shit (linksys sucks ass)
03:04:34 #corewars: < bvowk> so we have all the infrastructure to do it securely, we just needed new access points and better antennae to blast it down the corridors 
03:05:11 #corewars: < bvowk> finally got enough money together to buy enough big AP's to make it happen
03:05:13 #corewars: < joonas> oh, so you'd be in the middle of watching some fine streaming movie, and *wham* connection dies?  bad for immersion, I'm sure. :=
03:05:22 #corewars: < bvowk> lol
03:05:49 #corewars: < bvowk> no, its more like you're in the middle of hacking on something great, then some unter-grads walk by and suck up the 2.4Ghz
03:05:53 #corewars:  * joonas has seen xmms having pretty high cpu usage on 3jane. :)
03:06:17 #corewars: < bvowk> shouldn't be that high, its just mp3s
03:06:27 #corewars: < joonas> heh, I'm just teasing you.
03:07:14 #corewars:  * bvowk guesses 2000Mhz ain't what it used to be :/
03:07:28 #corewars: < joonas> lol
03:07:38 #corewars: < bvowk> someone bought an FX-51 the other day..
03:07:44 #corewars: < bvowk> 2GB of ram..
03:07:48 #corewars: < joonas> what's that, a cruise missile?
03:07:49 #corewars: < bvowk> in 1GB sticks
03:07:51 #corewars: < joonas> oh
03:07:58 #corewars: < bvowk> no, AMD's second fastest processor
03:08:10 #corewars: < bvowk> (although the fx-53's aren't in the supply chain yet)
03:08:20 #corewars: < bvowk> that was a smoking box
03:08:40 #corewars: < bvowk> he had a sata raid card and 4 160GB sata drives..
03:08:47 #corewars: < bvowk> and the box was pretty close to silent
03:08:55 #corewars: < bvowk> it was really sweet..
03:09:22 #corewars: < bvowk> of course, he's going to be using it for the next 10 years I'm sure, because he's blowing off his money to go into retirement...
03:09:37 #corewars: < joonas> heh. silences are golden.  we have some old hp boxes in the server room that scream and jiggle so much no-one can work in the same corridor
03:09:40 #corewars: < bvowk> and if I'm still working there in 10 years I'm going to curse it :)
03:09:52 #corewars: < joonas> lol
03:10:23 #corewars: < bvowk> so anything exciting over there?
03:10:28 #corewars: < bvowk> hacking on maps still?
03:10:31 #corewars: < joonas> btw, someone should fix the redefinition of EAI_NODATA
03:10:48 #corewars: < joonas> yes.  the boring bit now.
03:10:50 #corewars: < bvowk> heh
03:11:16 #corewars: < joonas> interfacing the cool stuff to the rest of the world with added Features.
03:11:30 #corewars: < bvowk> exciting!
03:17:41 #corewars: < joonas> so when's you're AP installation dance start?
03:17:57 #corewars: < bvowk> depends on how quickly crisco coughs the gear up
03:18:10 #corewars: < bvowk> I expect it'll be at least 4 weeks
03:18:16 -!- Mizcu [Mizcu@dsl-hkigw4icc.dial.inet.fi] has joined #corewars
03:18:32 #corewars: < Mizcu> hey, someone is alive this time of day!
03:18:37 #corewars: < joonas> how many do you have?
03:18:39 #corewars: < bvowk> but thats just dandy, cause classes will be over and the unter-grads will be spending time working behind the counter at 7-11 instead of getting in my way
03:18:41 #corewars: < joonas> hey mizcu
03:18:51 #corewars: < bvowk> unter-grads or APs?
03:18:55 #corewars: < joonas> what, classes over in four weeks?
03:18:58 #corewars: < joonas> APs
03:19:10 #corewars:  * joonas feels the pressure to get bac
03:19:13 #corewars: < joonas> k to school
03:19:15 #corewars: < joonas> real fast now
03:19:16 #corewars: < bvowk> between 5 and 7 depending on the last couple holdouts to signing
03:19:42 #corewars: < joonas> weeks to end of classes or APs?
03:19:50 #corewars: < bvowk> AP's :)
03:19:53 #corewars:  * joonas doesn't understand holdouts
03:19:54 #corewars: < joonas> ah
03:20:08 #corewars: < bvowk> some people haven't coughed up their contributions
03:20:24 #corewars: < joonas> I see.
03:20:31 #corewars: < bvowk> and the contributions for one group depends on getting the paperwork cleaned up before year end
03:20:34 #corewars: < joonas> heh... you should bohf them to submission. :9
03:20:46 #corewars: < joonas> bofh, even.
03:21:09 #corewars: < bvowk> those guys aren't my users... they're other bofh's who like to eat lunch in my building :)
03:21:33 #corewars: < Mizcu> joonas:  "Kattaa kaikki tunnetut c++-kääntäjät ja tietenkin Microsoftin ja Borlandin" -  Sanoisin että no hyvä, mutta kun Gpp ei tykkää k.o. c++ -oppaan kielestä :)
03:21:35 #corewars: < joonas> lol, you've got your users coughin up already. I like that. :)
03:21:41 #corewars: < bvowk> they're providing gear to cover the cafeteria and sitting areas
03:22:00 #corewars: < joonas> mizcu: mistd roi on?
03:22:20 #corewars: < joonas> mizcu: dh, siis toi, ei roi
03:23:14 #corewars: < Mizcu> joonas: "Opeta itsellesi C++", vuodelta '96
03:23:53 #corewars: < joonas> mizcu: ei kannata opetella c++:aa, silld siind on liian paljon kompastuskivid.
03:24:42 #corewars: < Mizcu> j: normaaliako sitten?
03:25:22 #corewars: < bvowk> forgive my ignorance, but what language would you guys be chattering in?
03:25:59 #corewars: < Mizcu> bvowk: just commented "quality" of c++ -guidebook i have. In Finnish
03:26:00 #corewars: < joonas> m: jep normaali on hyvd oppia.
03:26:30 #corewars: < joonas> bvowk: so C++ vs. C.  how do you feel about the issue?
03:26:34 #corewars:  * bvowk notes the finns like their i's and a's
03:27:02 #corewars:  * bvowk works fluently in both
03:27:08 #corewars: < joonas> finnish is very vowely with occasional shs
03:27:24 #corewars: < bvowk> I lean towards straigh C tho
03:27:25 #corewars: < joonas> yes, but would you recommend that a person learns C or C++ first?
03:27:38 #corewars: < bvowk> personally, I recommend asm first :)
03:27:49 #corewars: < bvowk> that way pointers don't seem so foriegn
03:28:23 #corewars: < joonas> I'd agree, but asm today on desktop chips is really quite difficult to get into.
03:28:37 #corewars: < joonas> compared to when you & I were kids.  :)
03:29:03 #corewars: < bvowk> I wouldn't go all the way into asm, just teach them the basics to twiddle their bits..
03:29:30 #corewars: < bvowk> once they know what the compiler is doing under the hood, people have many fewer problems understanding the why of C
03:30:41 #corewars: < joonas> basically, I have two big objections to C++: i) too easy to make subtle bugs, ii) not portable
03:30:42 #corewars: < Mizcu> go back to C 
03:30:49 #corewars: < Mizcu> go = so
03:31:03 #corewars: < joonas> and cryptic error messages to boot.  especially with templates.
03:31:58 #corewars: < bvowk> thats true..
03:32:35 #corewars: < joonas> as far as OO facilities go, I could use that sometimes in C.  but it's not overly difficult with a little restraint.
03:32:41 #corewars: < bvowk> but once you're really fluent, its a pretty slick development style
03:33:11 #corewars: < joonas> heh.  trouble is, getting really fluent takes way longer than it does to get really fluent with C.
03:33:22 #corewars: < bvowk> (although OO stuff doesn't fit everywhere, no matter how much you might want it to :))
03:34:33 #corewars:  * joonas has a basically cynical attitude towards OO, but does find it useful sometimes.
03:35:08 #corewars: < joonas> it's when you get really fundamental about it, like in java, is where it goes all sour.
03:35:18 #corewars: < bvowk> indeed
03:35:33 #corewars: < bvowk> of course, java is a stupid idea to begin with... :)
03:36:38 #corewars: < Mizcu> imho. not really stupid                           coffee is a good day starter
03:36:49 #corewars: < joonas> well it's not the brightest bulb in the pack, but it's pretty nifty in places.
03:37:11 #corewars: < bvowk> I know, lets make a language that runs well nowhere, runs poorly everywhere, has the strengths of almost no languages, and the bondage from the worst of them :)
03:37:19 #corewars: < joonas> the Enterprise Java Beans stuff makes me cringe though.
03:38:04 #corewars: < joonas> heh.  but the point is that it runs adequately lots of places.
03:38:35 #corewars: < bvowk> yes, but 95% of us all run the same OS and processor anyways :)
03:38:54 #corewars: < joonas> and /some/ of the interfaces are really nicely thought out.
03:38:57 #corewars: < joonas> heh
03:39:06 #corewars: < bvowk> and while java might run on 98% of the platforms, there are 10% of us who thumb out noses at it :)
03:39:14 #corewars: < joonas> lol
03:39:48 #corewars: < joonas> one language I'm quite fond of is OCaml.
03:40:24 #corewars: < joonas> most of the goodness of functional languages while not being fundamental about it
03:40:44 #corewars: < joonas> and lots of libraries.
03:41:05 #corewars:  * bvowk is a perl hacker
03:41:23 #corewars: < bvowk> its a cool language.. its got all the OO you'd ever want, if you want to use it..
03:41:41 #corewars: < joonas> perl is good too.  although it's quite easy to make subtle bugs too.  well for me anyway.
03:42:03 #corewars: < joonas> OCaml has OO too, but it's not widely used either.
03:42:08 #corewars: < bvowk> or you can spend your entire time with it doing open(Fh,"cmd |"); while(<fh>){ #do stuff } close fh;
03:42:30 #corewars: < joonas> hm. I take it back.  perl OO *is* used widely.
03:42:45 #corewars: < bvowk> I was about to say :)
03:43:00 #corewars: < joonas> man, I can't believe patching openssl requires building gcc again.
03:43:26 #corewars: < bvowk> it doesn't, but building world does :)
03:43:34 #corewars:  * joonas curses softly
03:43:57 #corewars: < bvowk> just put it in a screen and come back tommorrow and type make install<foo>
03:43:57 #corewars: < joonas> wtf happened to tracking source dependencies?  last time I checked make was pretty good at that.
03:44:47 #corewars: < bvowk> make is pretty good at it, but have you ever read the freebsd-questions list, 
03:45:00 #corewars: < bvowk> if you don't wanna rebuild everything, specify the correct magic in make.conf
03:45:15 #corewars: < joonas> no, I haven't.  I only read freebsd-stable.
03:45:22 #corewars:  * joonas makes a note to sign up.
03:45:46 #corewars: < bvowk> heh
03:45:47 #corewars: < bvowk> don't bother
03:45:58 #corewars: < bvowk> basicly they make buildworld idiot proof..
03:46:09 #corewars: < joonas> well they didn't see me coming. :)
03:46:15 #corewars: < bvowk> as long as you can make the basic toolchain, the rest of it can be made from source :)
03:46:28 #corewars: < bvowk> you're not an idiot, you're just impatient :)
03:46:31 #corewars: < bvowk> speaking of which..
03:46:57 #corewars: < bvowk> I've got an athlon 750 w/ 512M of ram if you wanna switch sal over
03:47:01 #corewars: < joonas> yes, it's a killer in nethack.
03:47:03 #corewars: < bvowk> to the intel side of the fource
03:47:06 #corewars: < bvowk> force even
03:47:28 #corewars: < joonas> haven't seen any processor correctable errors lately.
03:47:42 #corewars: < bvowk> it would prolly be a fair bit quicker tho
03:47:42 #corewars: < joonas> the 750 would be faster though.
03:48:02 #corewars: < joonas> but I really like running on an Alpha :-D
03:48:08 #corewars: < bvowk> its got 133Mhz SDram instead of 50ns parity simms :)
03:48:14 #corewars: < bvowk> :)
03:48:30 #corewars: < joonas> but hey, it's an *Alpha*!
03:48:42 #corewars: < bvowk> its true
03:49:12 #corewars: < bvowk> I almost managed to score a quad 667 alpha, but someone snatched it up on me :(
03:49:20 #corewars: < joonas> :-(
03:49:27 #corewars: < joonas> where was this?
03:49:54 #corewars: < bvowk> they were tossing it out of a research cluster
03:50:09 #corewars: < Mizcu> Ah, the days when i watched at a computer magazine and wondered WTF was 500 Mhz Alpha when best 'puter on stores was a 133 Pentium.
03:50:24 #corewars: < bvowk> yup
03:50:36 #corewars: < bvowk> back in those days sal was the schweetest most kickass box around
03:51:13 #corewars: < bvowk> I believe the box de jour was a 200Mhz PPro
03:51:28 #corewars:  * joonas creaks in his rocking chair...  "phentium's, we never heard of those in our day. 's all we could do to get 8 bits in our accus."
03:51:47 #corewars: < bvowk> heh
03:52:04 #corewars:  * bvowk remembers his 1200 baud modem and his 8088
03:52:39 #corewars: < joonas> was the world not a beautiful place then ted?
03:52:46 #corewars: < bvowk> heh
03:53:02 #corewars:  * joonas snaps out of it
03:53:17 #corewars: < bvowk> I remember getting up at 6am to login to the BBS's (there were 4 I regulared on) and play my turns of SRE, BRE and LOD
03:53:51 #corewars: < bvowk> oh! and don't forget LORD, but I was only allowed to play that on one of the BBS's cause I wasn't over 18 :(
03:54:03 #corewars: < joonas> oh, you poor thing.
03:54:48 #corewars: < joonas> nothing like downloading 16 colour porn over a 2400 baud modem. :)
03:55:09 #corewars: < bvowk> it wasn't porn..
03:55:20 #corewars: < joonas> well it was for me!
03:55:25 #corewars: < joonas> but no, you're right.
03:55:41 #corewars: < joonas> not they way it's now
03:55:55 #corewars: < bvowk> it just had killing and the odd illegitimate child.. apparently some kids mom called up and tore a strip off all the local BBS admins cause her kid was playing this awful game
03:56:12 #corewars: < joonas> oh, you meant LORD
03:56:29 #corewars: < bvowk> what did you mean? :)
03:56:39 #corewars: < joonas> well the kinds of pics you'd get back then.
03:57:03 #corewars: < bvowk> animated ansi porn? :)
03:57:11 #corewars: < joonas> lol
03:57:13 #corewars: < bvowk> rendered in 80x25 glory?
03:57:19 #corewars: < joonas> no, I don't recall that.
03:57:27 #corewars: < joonas> I'm sure it was around.
03:57:43 #corewars: < bvowk> there weren't any adult BBS's in my area
03:57:50 #corewars: < Mizcu> H0T erotic stories?
03:58:06 #corewars: < bvowk> nope, we were just lame computer geeks..
03:58:25 #corewars: < joonas> yes.  and, if you were lucky, girls wearing slightly less than bikinis.
03:58:28 #corewars: < bvowk> although there were a pile of them in the city
03:58:48 #corewars: < bvowk> just a little LD phonecall away
03:58:54 #corewars: < joonas> heh.
03:59:02 #corewars: < bvowk> I had a friend who ran up a 1200$ phonebill in his parents house like that...
03:59:20 #corewars: < joonas> well, I didn't want to ask. :)
03:59:34 #corewars: < joonas> and wardialing.
03:59:39 #corewars: < bvowk> yup
03:59:56 #corewars: < bvowk> I personally irritated everyone in my area code at least once
04:00:18 #corewars: < joonas> and when you'd finally get a login prompt, you'd try "root", password: "root"
04:00:45 #corewars: < joonas> a friend of mine got a visit from the powlice telling him to quit it.
04:00:59 #corewars: < bvowk> I never did
04:01:09 #corewars: < joonas> the phone company wasn't happy about it.
04:01:47 #corewars: < joonas> was just a warning though.  there's not much you can do to a 14 yo wardialer.
04:01:56 #corewars: < bvowk> although I set my modem to dial this one guys house every 10 seconds and patched an illegal phone line into an abandoned (but not yet disconnected) trailer
04:02:15 #corewars: < bvowk> that made the papers :)
04:02:20 #corewars: < joonas> what did he do to you?
04:02:20 #corewars: < Mizcu> phreak!!!!111
04:02:28 #corewars: < bvowk> moved
04:02:39 #corewars: < joonas> I meant why'd you do that?
04:03:06 #corewars: < bvowk> to tell you the truth, I can't even remember..
04:03:14 #corewars: < bvowk> i just remember being scared shitless about being caught
04:03:20 #corewars: < bvowk> (and having my modem taken away)
04:03:24 #corewars: < joonas> I can imagine.
04:04:30 #corewars: < bvowk> NOCLEAN will make make not unmake before making :)
04:04:36 #corewars: < bvowk> BTRW
04:04:40 #corewars: < bvowk> BTW even
04:04:47 #corewars: < joonas> ah, thanks.
04:05:03 #corewars: < joonas> that must be in one of the docs I didn't read.
04:05:09 #corewars: < joonas> *sigh'
04:05:09 #corewars:  * bvowk remembers one of the local BBS admins getting a Pentium 90 with a 1GB hard disk!!!
04:05:22 #corewars: < joonas> 1GB
04:05:43 #corewars: < joonas> must have cost him an arma and a log.
04:05:44 #corewars: < bvowk> it was a big thing, because then he could copy most of the files to the hard disk and you wouldn't have to wait 5 minutes for the CD jukebox to do its magic
04:06:02 #corewars: < bvowk> i know it cost him a wife
04:06:13 #corewars: < joonas> :-(
04:06:24 #corewars: < bvowk> but I don't think that was payment.. 
04:07:13 #corewars: < bvowk> oh well, it was a good lesson to the rest of us.. 
04:07:56 #corewars: < joonas> bbs
04:07:59 #corewars: < bvowk> so what did you run?
04:08:02 #corewars: < bvowk> back in the day?
04:11:06 #corewars: < joonas> back
04:11:59 #corewars: < joonas> well when I was 7 lots of my friends had Z80s and C64s
04:12:38 #corewars: < joonas> I wasn't seeing much of my dad then (divorce a few years earlier), and he wanted to make christmas really special
04:12:52 #corewars: < joonas> so he got me an Amstrad PC (8086) with 512K of memory.
04:13:17 #corewars: < bvowk> ooooo
04:13:17 #corewars: < joonas> on christmas eve when we opened presents I was really bummed out for not getting a C64
04:13:20 #corewars: < bvowk> sweet box
04:13:27 #corewars: < bvowk> lol
04:13:35 #corewars: < joonas> since I'd played so many cool games on those.
04:13:46 #corewars: < joonas> must have cost him a months pay back then.
04:14:02 #corewars: < bvowk> I remember being disappointed i didn't get an apple, until I found out my parents got a box with a 20mb hard disk
04:14:03 #corewars: < joonas> had two 360K floppy drives too.
04:14:11 #corewars: < bvowk> dual floppy!
04:14:17 #corewars: < Mizcu> woo! i just created a program with a function for doing data manipulation, and it only took 3 fixes to get it compile.
04:14:40 #corewars: < joonas> w00t!
04:15:07 #corewars: < joonas> but disappointment only lasted for a few hours since we figured out how to get the games disk running.
04:15:45 #corewars: < joonas> and, of course, in a few years when everyone else was getting PCs, I was King for I had CGA!  
04:16:06 #corewars: < joonas> man, those losers with hercules were *so* jealous. :)
04:16:57 #corewars: < joonas> didn't take them long to upgrade to EGA though.
04:17:28 #corewars: < joonas> so then I was the loser for not being able to play the new games releases.
04:17:56 #corewars: < bvowk> I had a radioshack box -> tandy 8088 w/ CGA! -> tandy 286 -> homebrewy 386 -> 486 I overclocked to 160Mhz and worked all summer to buy a 1.2GB hard disk -> P133 oc'd 170 something w/ a 2GB disk -> P200 -> AMDK6-2 233 oc'd 266 -> K6-2 266 oc'd 333 -> ...
04:18:24 #corewars: < bvowk> my first VGA monitor came from a house fire..
04:18:28 #corewars: < bvowk> so it was all melted and black
04:18:35 #corewars: < joonas> heh
04:19:11 #corewars:  * joonas wonders whatever happened to XGA
04:19:29 #corewars: < bvowk> heh
04:19:37 #corewars: < joonas> the next generation VGA that was supposed to be all the world
04:19:44 #corewars: < bvowk> yup
04:19:57 #corewars: < bvowk> its what they call 1024x768 notebooks now :)
04:20:07 #corewars: < joonas> oh?  cool.
04:20:15 #corewars: < joonas> ah, right. the 64K limit.
04:20:18 #corewars: < joonas> colours
04:20:21 #corewars: < bvowk> yup, and you can get WXGA
04:20:26 #corewars: < bvowk> if you get a big one
04:20:27 #corewars: < joonas> what's the W?
04:20:30 #corewars: < joonas> wise?
04:20:30 #corewars: < bvowk> wide
04:20:32 #corewars: < joonas> wide?
04:20:34 #corewars: < bvowk> :)
04:20:39 #corewars: < Mizcu> Spectravideowhatever -> 386/16 -> 486/66 -> p120 -> p300 upgraded to 500, p2-350 at dad's -> 1Ghz that i am now on.
04:21:17 #corewars: < bvowk> after the k6-2 333 i start getting into groups of boxes
04:21:20 #corewars: < joonas> nice list.
04:21:36 #corewars:  * joonas groans
04:21:59 #corewars: < joonas> please don't list those, for our geeky pride will go down the toilet
04:22:00 #corewars: < bvowk> (I moved out of my parents place, and started working in a computer support place... they let me take home the old grotty gear customers left behind
04:22:18 #corewars: < bvowk> wanna hear whats in my closet?
04:22:26 #corewars: < Mizcu> 386 was given away, 486/66 is 1 meter away from me, still alive and well, p120 given away, p300-500 was sold 
04:22:33 #corewars: < joonas> you're doing that on purpose. :)
04:22:36 #corewars: < joonas> yeah, go on.
04:22:38 #corewars: < bvowk> heh
04:22:49 #corewars: < joonas> what's the 486 doing now?
04:23:02 #corewars: < Mizcu> waiting to be plugged on internet
04:23:40 #corewars: < Mizcu> Need a cable..
04:23:48 #corewars: < bvowk> in my closet currently unused I've got a dual PII 350 w/ 512M, dual 850 w/ 1GB, duron 1Ghz w/ 256M dual, celeron 500Mhz w/ 512M, k6-2 450, k6-2 500, k6-2 300
04:24:24 #corewars: < joonas> so why aren't those in use?
04:24:27 #corewars: < bvowk> not to mention 2 TNT2's a TNT1 and a voodoo or some variety :/
04:24:38 #corewars: < joonas> you could be running mprime or whatever
04:24:50 #corewars: < bvowk> no cases, no power supplies and no drives..
04:24:53 #corewars: < bvowk> and no power
04:25:05 #corewars: < joonas> is your electric bill big?
04:25:18 #corewars: < joonas> mizcu: any planned purpose for the 486?
04:25:21 #corewars: < bvowk> i've got 3 athlon 1.foo's and 3 opterons sitting in those cases
04:25:22 #corewars: < Mizcu> Ah, got voodoo II from my uncle and quake just looked so_much_better
04:25:55 #corewars: < joonas> if it's not a Sierra title or an Amiga game, I'vw not played it.
04:26:05 #corewars: < bvowk> and I've got 1.4Ghz athlons in my 2 home boxen
04:26:14 #corewars: < Mizcu> joonas: no any big purpose, to learn basic linux use and maybe keep it as a small server /irc box
04:26:44 #corewars: < bvowk> I only know the contents of my closet because my wife made me take inventory and post it on the bulletin board at work
04:26:48 #corewars: < joonas> Mizcu: you can get a really small Debian system on it w/o X for under 120 MB.
04:26:59 #corewars: < joonas> lol
04:27:01 #corewars: < bvowk> joonas: openbsd
04:27:38 #corewars: < Mizcu> joonas: currently running slackware, 12 Megs hd used :)   (2.2.something kernel)
04:27:42 #corewars: < bvowk> you can fit a full distro plus perl into 16M if you apply crunch with enough force
04:27:58 #corewars: < bvowk> there's a guy who does routers at the U lik that
04:28:16 #corewars: < Mizcu> Though i installed gcc, some libraries and perl in it, took 200 Megs 
04:28:19 #corewars: < bvowk> on a 32M CF :)
04:28:20 #corewars:  * joonas feels distro-smacked
04:28:43 #corewars: < Mizcu> (Take 10 seconds for the perl to start..)
04:28:49 #corewars: < bvowk> heh
04:29:01 #corewars: < joonas> something must be wrong then.
04:29:26 #corewars: < joonas> I used to run on a 486/66 until the HD died a few years back.
04:29:32 #corewars: < bvowk> I remember having to work my ass off to afford enough memory to play doom on my 386 :)
04:29:47 #corewars: < joonas> perl was quick to start up (and was what SoV was optimised on.)
04:30:01 #corewars: < joonas> well, also the uni computer labs, but don't tell anyone.
04:30:04 #corewars: < bvowk> you optimized SOV on a 486?
04:30:19 #corewars: < bvowk> oh.. I was about to weep with horror
04:30:22 #corewars: < joonas> well, ok, it was mostly the computer labs.
04:30:31 #corewars: < Mizcu> ok, not exactly 10 seconds, but feels like it when its running a simple guestbookscript through webserver
04:30:46 #corewars: < joonas> I'd ssh over to all the boxes in a classroom late at night and start up the optimiser.
04:30:57 #corewars: < joonas> then go kill it in the morning.
04:31:00 #corewars: < bvowk> i've got 30 athlons and a few hill attempters.. if you could optimize SOV on a 486 I'd feel small and insignifican
04:31:14 #corewars: < bvowk> what were the lab boxen
04:31:24 #corewars: < joonas> hm.. don't know.
04:31:39 #corewars: < joonas> it was 1999-2001
04:31:46 #corewars: < joonas> they were pretty new then.
04:31:49 #corewars:  * bvowk remembers turning up the key requirements on his SSH back in the day and it taking 5 minutes to login..
04:31:58 #corewars: < joonas> lol
04:31:59 #corewars: < bvowk> likely athlon 750's or something..
04:32:06 #corewars: < joonas> paranoid!
04:32:19 #corewars: < bvowk> its true
04:32:40 #corewars: < joonas> or just auto-geek-ego-boosting
04:33:00 #corewars: < bvowk> 1999-2001 we were running k6-2 400's at the start, k6-2 500's i nthe middle, and athlon 750's at the end
04:33:18 #corewars: < joonas> the 486/66 did come up with pretty good sovs though.
04:33:23 #corewars: < bvowk> I bought 5 dual celeron 500's around that time  too :)
04:33:33 #corewars: < joonas> it's all in how you program the logic to create a warrior, with as few duds as possible.
04:33:38 #corewars: < bvowk> they kept my computer room a little bit too hot
04:33:54 #corewars: < joonas> tell me, what did you do with all that power?
04:34:21 #corewars: < bvowk> worked on that finance project I was telling you about
04:34:30 #corewars: < joonas> ah
04:34:44 #corewars: < joonas> I thought that was something quite recent
04:34:48 #corewars: < bvowk> nope
04:35:10 #corewars: < bvowk> its got corporate funding recently.. but its been going on for far too long
04:36:52 #corewars:  * joonas 's productivity rating has gone down the drain
04:37:03 #corewars: < bvowk> rating?
04:37:19 #corewars: < joonas> I rate my productivity
04:37:39 #corewars: < bvowk> well, give yourself a better rating and your morale will improve :)
04:37:56 #corewars: < joonas> for the past two hours it's been 0 lines of code, and 0 thoughts on design/structure
04:37:56 #corewars: < joonas> lol
04:38:12 #corewars:  * bvowk notes thats all his fault
04:38:18 #corewars: < bvowk> <--- chatty bitch.
04:38:19 #corewars:  * joonas has no restraing
04:38:24 #corewars: < joonas> restraint
04:38:35 #corewars:  * joonas 's a sucker for chat
04:38:48 #corewars: < bvowk> oh well, you're not around very often
04:39:29 #corewars: < bvowk> we had a windows box get holed today
04:39:37 #corewars: < joonas> tell us
04:40:00 #corewars: < joonas> how?
04:40:15 #corewars: < bvowk> it was patched all up, so i'm not exactly sure what happened.. I spent about 45 minutes running through the packet logs with tcpshow and tcpreplay
04:40:36 #corewars: < bvowk> I have a feeling someone was running an ftp server I told him not to and thats the missing bit
04:40:57 #corewars: < joonas> don't you see the ftp packets?
04:41:16 #corewars: < bvowk> not really.. there is a sudden flurry of strangeness, and then a windows shell
04:41:35 #corewars: < bvowk> I was planning to look at it tonite actually :)
04:41:41 #corewars: < bvowk> but I've been here for 2 hours :)
04:41:45 #corewars: < joonas> <--- chatty bitch.
04:42:17 #corewars: < bvowk> oh well, it'll be something to do during lunch tommorrow..
04:42:26 #corewars: < joonas> and mizcu too.
04:42:33 #corewars: < bvowk> heh
04:42:36 #corewars: < Mizcu> ..
04:42:43 #corewars: < bvowk> mizcu had a nice run of boxes back in the day
04:43:02 #corewars: < bvowk> although he's prolly just about due for another one..
04:43:12 #corewars: < bvowk> maybe he needs an fx-51 :)
04:43:29 #corewars: < Mizcu> I was actually thinking about 2Ghz Duron..
04:43:57 #corewars: < bvowk> I didn't think they had 2Ghz durons.. i thought the duron stopped at 1.4Ghz
04:44:35 #corewars: < Mizcu> Ah, 1.8 Ghz fastes available here
04:44:56 #corewars: < bvowk> would be a nice upgrade
04:45:17 #corewars: < Mizcu> 46e at verkkokauppa
04:45:36 #corewars: < bvowk> did you hear that the new 3.4Ghz 90nm P4 is slower than its previous revision, and runs at 78C?!
04:46:08 #corewars: < bvowk> I'm not sure how you can shrink the die and go up my a measly 200Mhz and come out that searingly hot
04:46:58 #corewars: < Mizcu> By the time with my old amd-k6,  400Mhz processor ran hotter than a 500Mhz model i bought from a friend
04:47:31 #corewars: < bvowk> yeah, they shrank the die on that one..
04:47:32 #corewars: < Mizcu> But that was not about "better" design, but better batch
04:47:35 #corewars: < bvowk> it was a big change :)
04:47:50 #corewars: < Mizcu> they did?
04:47:57 #corewars: < Mizcu> darn
04:48:03 #corewars: < bvowk> yup
04:48:21 #corewars: < Mizcu> ah, the selling of 400Mhz was a weird case also..
04:49:31 #corewars:  * bvowk had a peltier cooler on a few of his k6-2's with a great big massive 6"x6"x2" heatsink
04:49:40 #corewars: < bvowk> it'd cool the cpu to ~-15C
04:49:56 #corewars: < Mizcu> k6-2's were all very unresponsive to OC
04:50:24 #corewars: < bvowk> well.. they weren't like the celerons, but they didn't do bad
04:50:35 #corewars: < Mizcu> I remember one 400 @ 600 with air, but no better
04:50:37 #corewars: < bvowk> especially if you could cool them
04:50:47 #corewars: < Mizcu> few 600's with water
04:51:12 #corewars: < Mizcu> joonas
04:51:56 #corewars: < Mizcu> http://koti.mbnet.fi/mizcu/mysteeri.txt    (in Finnish, so dont bother bvowk)
04:54:11 #corewars:  * bvowk needs a quad 848 opteron w/ 32GB of memory to run his mysql box
04:54:15 #corewars: < bvowk> that would make it fly
04:54:55 #corewars: < joonas> lol
04:55:05 #corewars: < joonas> that's a really funny story mizcu
04:55:10 #corewars: < Mizcu> And i'd like a new Motherboard, to get rid of pc-133, preferably new display adapter, "enough" harddrive..
04:56:54 #corewars:  * bvowk thinks joonas should buy him a quad 848 for wrecking his productivity :)
04:56:57 #corewars:  * bvowk ducks
04:57:25 #corewars:  * joonas heaves his 800Mhz Athlon at bvowk
04:57:52 #corewars: < bvowk> heh
04:58:04 #corewars: < bvowk> ouch! its got pointy corners!
04:59:06 #corewars: < bvowk> http://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/pools.html#outgoing
04:59:21 #corewars: < bvowk> load balance your traffic between multiple internet connections just for kicks
04:59:39 #corewars: < joonas> so the story's about when mizcu sold his machine by mailing it to some guy he's md met on irc (or maybe in rl also)
04:59:54 #corewars: < Mizcu> not machine, but the processor
04:59:55 #corewars: < joonas> so the package comes to this guys house
05:00:00 #corewars: < joonas> right, processor only.
05:00:09 #corewars: < joonas> in a brown envelope, and he isn't in.
05:00:38 #corewars: < joonas> but his mum is, and she, who doesn't know drugs/bombs from processors, calls the police over
05:01:10 #corewars: < joonas> two officers show up, have a look at some strange 'quipment in a brown envolope and decide they're not going to tough it
05:01:13 #corewars: < joonas> touch it
05:01:48 #corewars: < bvowk> LOL
05:01:59 #corewars: < bvowk> did your processor get blown up by the bomb squad?
05:02:08 #corewars: < joonas> so they either send for the bomb squad or take it with them (the irc log is a bit fuzzy at this point with everyone laughing their asses off.)
05:02:47 #corewars: < bvowk> that is quite entertaining
05:03:54 #corewars: < joonas> in the mean time, some guy from herttoniemi (a suburb that's not always the first choice) phones the other guys home.
05:04:04 #corewars: < joonas> and his mom is scared out of her mind
05:04:18 #corewars: < Mizcu> (the phoning happened before the officers)
05:04:35 #corewars: < joonas> ah, right, sorry.
05:05:02 #corewars: < Mizcu> The mom wouldnt have called the police without the call, espacially since the guy spoke mumbled somethign about a "package"
05:05:04 #corewars: < joonas> he gets it back in the end though, and all's well.
05:05:53 #corewars: < joonas> no-one owns up to phoning, so it's still a mystery.  hence mysteeri.txt.
05:06:54 #corewars: < bvowk> heh
05:07:04 #corewars: < joonas> lol.. later mizcu comments that he should have put some silicon paste in the package too. :)
05:10:33 #corewars: < bvowk> heh
05:12:30 #corewars: < Mizcu> Strage things do happen every once in a while
05:16:34 #corewars: < Mizcu> i already thought my head was beeping, damn flash advertisements
05:17:08 #corewars: < bvowk> your head was beeping?
05:17:12 #corewars: < bvowk> does that happen alot?
05:17:35 #corewars: < Mizcu> no
05:19:07 #corewars: < bvowk> thats likely a good thing :)
05:20:39 #corewars: < bvowk> hrm, this womans name is linglong kong
05:20:47 #corewars: < bvowk> thats kinda entertaining
05:21:36 #corewars: < joonas> what's she done?
05:24:32 #corewars: < joonas> wow, the math/stat web pages of ualberta are considerate to provide a non-javascript version.
05:24:53 -!- Mizcu is now known as Mizaway
05:28:03 #corewars: < bvowk> heh
05:30:56 #corewars: < joonas> what's the average tuition / year at uofa?
05:31:53 #corewars: < bvowk> about 6G iirc
05:32:01 #corewars: < bvowk> depends on your courses tho
05:32:19 #corewars: < joonas> that's not too bad.
05:32:23 #corewars: < bvowk> not really
05:32:31 #corewars: < bvowk> I think it goes up if your a foriegn student..
05:32:39 #corewars: < joonas> not really it's bad, or not really it's not too bad?
05:33:03 #corewars: < bvowk> but if your not an unter-grad you can get paid to attend as long as you do the teaching work
05:33:12 #corewars: < bvowk> its not too bad for the education
05:34:18 #corewars: < bvowk> thinking about going to skool in another cold country joonas?
05:34:34 #corewars: < joonas> no.
05:34:54 #corewars: < joonas> work on the thesis has progressed finally.
05:35:10 #corewars: < joonas> well, I've started again after a hiatus of ~2y.
05:35:35 #corewars: < joonas> took some courses last fall and some exams this spring.
05:35:44 #corewars: < joonas> not much longer now.
05:35:47 #corewars: < joonas> and I'll be done.
05:36:56 #corewars: < joonas> though I fear that there's 15 units I have that won't be counted towards my degree and I'll have to fill them with something different.
05:37:09 #corewars: < joonas> will need to check them.
05:38:50 #corewars:  * joonas is confused
05:39:09 #corewars: < bvowk> confused?
05:39:18 #corewars: < joonas> while browsing the ualberta pages there were only BSc studies for undergraduate.
05:39:20 #corewars: < joonas> s
05:39:57 #corewars: < joonas> here you're almost expected to go for MSc from the start, although some do do the BSc first.
05:40:31 #corewars: < bvowk> hrm
05:40:32 #corewars: < joonas> then you do either a licensiate (sp?) or go straight to doctorate.
05:40:52 #corewars: < joonas> the difference being a few nominal courses and lots of publications
05:42:44 #corewars:  * bvowk eats lunch with a former Phd chemist who worked for a while in a classified nuclear weapons lab
05:43:03 #corewars: < bvowk> he decided he liked to be a systems administrator better :)
05:43:22 #corewars: < joonas> you have the weidest people lunching with you
05:43:26 #corewars: < bvowk> currently he is trying to leech free wireless internet across the street to the university
05:43:39 #corewars: < joonas> and how's he doing?
05:44:11 #corewars: < bvowk> well, he's got leeched wireless, he's configuing a small embedded box w/ openbsd to boot off CF to do the routing and IPSEC'ing
05:44:26 #corewars: < bvowk> it must be nice to live across the street from the U
05:44:35 #corewars: < bvowk> I live across the river
05:44:56 #corewars: < joonas> oooh... your fluid dynamics group is doing the coolest stuff.
05:44:58 #corewars: < bvowk> if my condo was on the other side of the building (facing south) I could see the top of my building
05:45:07 #corewars: < joonas> that's the kind of thing I want to be doing.
05:45:51 #corewars: < bvowk> bowmans a pretty interesting guy..
05:45:58 #corewars: < bvowk> if you like alphas, he's got a few too
05:46:17 #corewars: < bvowk> the rest of them like sgi's tho.. bletch
05:46:30 #corewars: < bvowk> I know of more powerful toaster ovens
05:46:38 #corewars: < joonas> heh
05:46:55 #corewars: < joonas> but can they do spiffy 3d imaging while toasting?
05:47:29 #corewars: < bvowk> heh
05:47:45 #corewars: < bvowk> no, but you wouldn't have to run ilix
05:48:18 #corewars: < bvowk> I thought the math-finance group added a few new members
05:48:28 #corewars: < joonas> ouch.. graduate studies cost a small fortune.
05:50:30 #corewars: < bvowk> yeah
05:50:51 #corewars: < joonas> I'd have to get a hefty raise and still it'd be years before I could save up that much.
05:51:59 #corewars: < bvowk> well... if you're silly enough to pay for it all yourself, I don't think you're smart enough to make it through :)
05:52:32 #corewars:  * joonas isn't familiar with the concept of not paying for it yourself
05:52:46 #corewars: < joonas> 's because studies are free here.
05:52:56 #corewars: < bvowk> you need to find a scholarship and impress someone with your masters work enough that they'll help you out..
05:53:21 #corewars: < joonas> man, I *knew* there was a reason for master's degrees.
05:54:05 #corewars: < joonas> just not what it was.
05:54:33 #corewars:  * joonas needs to get a sugamommy
05:55:15 #corewars: < joonas> she'll be dazzled by my depth of knowledge in numerical ODEs
05:55:27 #corewars: < bvowk> heh
05:55:36 #corewars: < joonas> ....solution of, I mean.,
05:55:41 #corewars: < joonas> man, this isn't starting out well.
05:55:47 #corewars: < bvowk> what isn't?
05:56:20 #corewars: < joonas> well if I say "numerical ODEs", she'll laugh me out right there. :-)
05:56:42 #corewars: < joonas> anyway
05:57:13 #corewars: < bvowk> depends on where you go looking for sugar mommas
05:59:35 #corewars: < bvowk> if you went looking around a math department you might get some bites...
06:01:09 #corewars: < joonas> ualberta has lots of ode people
06:02:08 #corewars: < bvowk> ode?
06:02:15 #corewars: < bvowk> was that supposed to be odd or old?
06:02:39 #corewars: < joonas> ordinary
06:03:24 #corewars: < joonas> that is, not partial differential equations.
06:03:43 #corewars: < joonas> partial diff. eqs. deal with equations governing multidimensional things
06:03:45 #corewars: < joonas> in time
06:03:49 #corewars: < joonas> or some dependant
06:04:19 #corewars: < joonas> for instance waves in water, or membranes, or air pressure 
06:06:11 -!- johnkw [~bla@natpool.ud.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
06:07:00 -!- Mizaway [Mizcu@dsl-hkigw4icc.dial.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
06:07:10 -!- grabek [grabek@nat-b.acn.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
06:07:27 -!- joonas [jpihlaja@kruuna.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
06:07:41 -!- brx [~as@pD9EAB092.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
06:08:33 -!- johnkw [~bla@natpool.ud.com] has joined #corewars
06:08:34 -!- joonas [jpihlaja@kruuna.helsinki.fi] has joined #corewars
06:08:52 #corewars: < bvowk> hrm
06:08:58 #corewars: < bvowk> have fun splitting like that?
06:09:19 #corewars: < joonas> no.
06:09:30 #corewars: < joonas> wasn't everyone kicked off?
06:10:13 #corewars: < bvowk> not me
06:11:09 #corewars: < joonas> I saw grabek and mizcu being kicked/ping timeouted, and then the server wouldn't respond to me.
06:11:28 #corewars: < joonas> did I miss anything?
06:12:58 -!- grabek [grabek@nat-b.acn.pl] has joined #corewars
06:13:29 -!- brx [~as@pD9EAB092.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #corewars
06:13:40 #corewars: < bvowk> yes, there was a sudden party
06:13:50 #corewars: < bvowk> we busted out the tequilla and shooters girs
06:13:54 #corewars: < bvowk> girls even
06:14:37 #corewars: < joonas> well you sounded upset.
06:14:56 #corewars: < bvowk> *sniff* splits always get me emotional :)
06:15:02 #corewars: < joonas> he
06:15:03 #corewars: < joonas> h
06:22:55 -!- johnkw [~bla@natpool.ud.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
06:23:33 -!- johnkw [~bla@natpool.ud.com] has joined #corewars
06:24:16 #corewars: < joonas> ok, time to go.
06:24:22 #corewars: < joonas> nice chatting with you
06:24:25 -!- joonas [jpihlaja@kruuna.helsinki.fi] has quit [quit]
06:29:25 -!- bvowk [~bvowk@h24-67-137-90.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [using sirc version 2.211+ssfe]
08:31:10 -!- willvarfa [~Will@arken-16-57-21.ip-pluggen.com] has joined #corewars
09:02:23 -!- will_varf [~Will@arken-16-57-81.ip-pluggen.com] has joined #corewars
09:05:18 -!- willvarfa [~Will@arken-16-57-21.ip-pluggen.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
09:33:33 -!- willvarfa [~Will@arken-16-57-62.ip-pluggen.com] has joined #corewars
09:36:28 -!- will_varf [~Will@arken-16-57-81.ip-pluggen.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
10:04:55 -!- will_varf [~Will@arken-16-57-31.ip-pluggen.com] has joined #corewars
10:08:00 -!- willvarfa [~Will@arken-16-57-62.ip-pluggen.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
10:35:58 -!- willvarfa [~Will@arken-16-57-56.ip-pluggen.com] has joined #corewars
10:38:50 -!- will_varf [~Will@arken-16-57-31.ip-pluggen.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
11:06:58 -!- will_varf [~Will@arken-16-57-18.ip-pluggen.com] has joined #corewars
11:09:30 -!- willvarfa [~Will@arken-16-57-56.ip-pluggen.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
11:27:46 -!- grabek [grabek@nat-b.acn.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
11:28:57 -!- grabek [grabek@nat-b.acn.pl] has joined #corewars
11:38:04 -!- willvarfa [~Will@arken-16-57-9.ip-pluggen.com] has joined #corewars
11:40:20 -!- will_varf [~Will@arken-16-57-18.ip-pluggen.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]