--- Log opened Mon Mar 01 00:00:27 2004
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13:09:53 -!- Roy [~roy_van_r@guest-dhcp-281.si.hhs.nl] has joined #corewars
13:10:45 #corewars:  * Roy has had it with reading Service Level Agreements, grrrrr
13:12:57 #corewars: < willvarfa> hello Roy
13:17:43 #corewars: < Roy> hello
13:20:57 #corewars: < willvarfa> what MARS do you use for debugging a warrior during development?
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13:21:47 #corewars: < brx> hellaw.
13:22:04 #corewars: < Roy> I use uhm, pmars server and if I need visual I use CoreWin
13:22:22 #corewars: < Roy> (pmarsv isn't working on my XP machine, else I would be using that)
13:22:35 #corewars: < willvarfa> have you tried the sdl version of pmars?
13:22:37 #corewars: < willvarfa> hello brx
13:23:02 #corewars: < brx> Roy: what about the sdl version?
13:23:18 #corewars: < brx> oh
13:23:20 #corewars: < brx> lol
13:23:22 #corewars: < brx> sorry will
13:23:27 #corewars: < willvarfa> np
13:23:36 #corewars: < willvarfa> I was just copying you
13:23:41 #corewars: < brx> ^^
13:24:09 #corewars: < brx> <- happy.. two days to go, last day of school
13:27:46 #corewars: < Roy> I don't know, I tried it once,  but I didn't like it
13:28:07 #corewars: < Roy> I always used the ascii pmarsv, not the visual (I like the ascii version so much!)
13:28:25 #corewars: < brx> hmhm
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13:31:27 #corewars:  * Roy has to go again, work on his personal blog
13:31:30 #corewars: < Roy> bye!
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13:34:31 #corewars: < will_varf> just putting in a few hours on my new debugger, http://redcoder.sourceforge.net?p=redcoder
13:43:54 #corewars: < brx> a blog.
13:44:00 #corewars: < brx> hell, that's what i am going to do now ^^
13:46:55 #corewars: < will_varf> you have a blog?
13:49:05 #corewars: < will_varf> bbs
13:52:06 #corewars: < brx> not yet
13:52:13 #corewars:  * brx stretches himself
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14:55:09 #corewars: < brx> too bad html doesn't feature variables
14:57:46 #corewars: < will_varf> php?
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15:38:39 #corewars: < brx> will_varf: i am using perl ^^
15:39:03 #corewars: < brx> will_varf: basically Mason would be an option i think. i am not going to use it though.
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16:29:55 -!- Mizcu [Mizcu@dsl-hkigw4m4a.dial.inet.fi] has joined #corewars
16:30:28 #corewars: < willvarfa> hello Mizcu
16:30:38 #corewars: < Mizcu> hi will
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16:47:52 #corewars: < bvowk> hrm
16:51:12 #corewars: < will_varf> hello Barkley
16:51:54 #corewars: < bvowk> Hi will
16:51:58 #corewars: < bvowk> how's it going?
16:54:40 #corewars: < will_varf> quite well, quite well
16:54:43 #corewars: < will_varf> yourself?
16:56:33 #corewars: < bvowk> prety fair..
16:56:41 #corewars: < bvowk> I'm gaping at my new monitor
16:56:45 #corewars: < bvowk> (its pretty)
16:57:52 #corewars: < will_varf> how big? flat?
16:58:25 #corewars: < bvowk> 21" TFT LCD @ 1600x1200
17:01:35 #corewars: < bvowk> (its pretty)
17:03:57 #corewars: < bvowk> 100.0% CD 754.13M created 22.26K Accptd 0.00 % Accptd - Tx 4379 wu Rx 4358 wu
17:04:04 #corewars: < bvowk> 754M overnight..
17:04:09 #corewars: < bvowk> thats not a bad rater..
17:04:13 #corewars: < bvowk> rate even
17:05:08 #corewars: < will_varf> ?
17:06:15 #corewars: < bvowk> thats the evolver, I made and threw away 754M warriors last night
17:07:03 #corewars: < bvowk> I kept 22260, at least until they fell out off the hill (of 2000), sent 4300 work units, recieved 4300 work units back
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17:07:19 #corewars:  * bvowk wonders about will and his dlink of doom
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17:10:26 #corewars: < bvowk> did you get my description will?
17:11:21 #corewars: < willvarfa> ?
17:12:39 #corewars: < bvowk> thats the evolver, I made and threw away 754M warriors last night
17:12:43 #corewars: < bvowk> I kept 22260, at least until they fell out off the hill (of 2000), sent 4300 work units, recieved 4300 work units back
17:13:50 #corewars: < willvarfa> cool
17:13:53 #corewars: < willvarfa> that is quite staggering!
17:13:56 #corewars: < willvarfa> how many machines?
17:14:17 #corewars: < bvowk> ~3-
17:14:21 #corewars: < bvowk> 30 even
17:25:39 #corewars: < bvowk> anything new with species?
17:28:19 #corewars: < willvarfa> well I've been thinking about a new kind of machine optimisation
17:28:28 #corewars: < willvarfa> I also have put some time into Redcoder 2
17:28:32 #corewars: < willvarfa> and I have real work of course
17:28:44 #corewars: < willvarfa> there is so much for Species 2; possibly even a rewrite
17:28:54 #corewars: < bvowk> give me the coles notes for your idea.. (if you don't mind)
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17:42:42 #corewars: < will_varf> bbs maybe
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17:55:27 #corewars: < Metcalf> Hi all...
17:55:42 #corewars: < Mizcu> Hi Met
17:56:06 #corewars: < Metcalf> Hi Mizcu. Anything new? Any gossip?
17:56:10 #corewars: < will_varf> hello John
17:56:24 #corewars: < Metcalf> Hi Will. Not seen you here for a while
17:57:10 #corewars: < Mizcu> Met: its been ominously silent. Cute tiny P/I
17:58:44 #corewars: < Metcalf> Oh, thanks. You saw it on sourceforge?
17:58:52 #corewars: < Mizcu> yes
17:59:19 #corewars: < Metcalf> I'm surprised how well it does
17:59:23 #corewars: < Mizcu> just that i dont understand the meaning of the latter mov # {1
18:00:39 #corewars: < Metcalf> Ah, step through it and see how it behaves.
18:01:38 #corewars: < Metcalf> I tried a few things, this was just one of them.  Seems to be effective.
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18:06:58 -!- Metcalf [~John@217.158.137.194] has joined #corewars
18:07:22 #corewars: < Metcalf> I hear a little click from the machine, and suddenly IRC has gone!
18:09:16 -!- willvarfa [~Will@arken-16-57-84.ip-pluggen.com] has joined #corewars
18:10:03 #corewars: < bvowk> click!
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18:19:05 #corewars: < fizmo> hi
18:19:11 #corewars: < bvowk> greets fizmo
18:19:21 #corewars: < fizmo> hi bvowk
18:20:34 #corewars: < fizmo> Round 17 rules are online now
18:21:36 #corewars:  * willvarfa goes looks!
18:25:04 #corewars: < willvarfa> what a neat round!
18:25:15 #corewars: < willvarfa> I like these rounds against known warriors
18:25:53 #corewars: < fizmo> yes, that is
18:26:20 #corewars: < willvarfa> already beginning to think of my options!
18:27:07 #corewars: < fizmo> It will be difficult to find the stone, because it's small and bombs invisible
18:27:51 #corewars: < willvarfa> bombs invisible?
18:28:07 #corewars: < fizmo> bombs with dat 0, 0
18:28:39 #corewars:  * willvarfa 'll have to run it to see; didn't think SB was invisible though
18:29:52 #corewars:  * bvowk bombs fizmo
18:30:32 #corewars:  * fizmo scans bvowk
18:31:11 #corewars: < bvowk> hey, quit checking me out, I don't swing that way
18:31:14 #corewars: < bvowk> !!
18:31:30 #corewars: < fizmo> :)
18:32:00 #corewars: < willvarfa> lol
18:32:19 #corewars: < bvowk> man, I want to take this monitor home!
18:32:20 -!- joonas [jpihlaja@kruuna.helsinki.fi] has joined #corewars
18:32:35 #corewars: < bvowk> joonas!
18:32:40 #corewars: < joonas> barkley
18:32:40 #corewars: < willvarfa> hello joonas
18:32:41 #corewars: < joonas> !
18:32:47 #corewars: < joonas> and will!. hi
18:32:56 #corewars: < joonas> and jaska!
18:33:06 #corewars: < joonas> (P.S.  I miss your logs.)
18:33:19 #corewars: < joonas> crowded in here
18:33:29 #corewars: < bvowk> how's it going joonas?
18:33:29 -!- Roy [~roy_van_r@kf-mss-cb01-00480.dial.kabelfoon.nl] has joined #corewars
18:33:34 #corewars: < Roy> Hello
18:33:52 #corewars: < joonas> good, good.  sober. :-)
18:33:55 #corewars: < joonas> hi roy
18:34:03 #corewars: < joonas> and you?
18:34:12 #corewars: < bvowk> sober?
18:34:12 #corewars: < fizmo> Hi
18:34:18 #corewars: < fizmo> Round 17 rules are online now
18:34:20 #corewars: < bvowk> were you not sober earlier?
18:34:32 #corewars: < joonas> less so, but not completely out.
18:34:50 #corewars: < jaska> wha. logs?
18:34:55 #corewars: < jaska> my logs not on?
18:34:58 #corewars: < Roy> Ah nice, big brother? :)
18:35:02 #corewars: < jaska> arrh.
18:35:07 #corewars: < jaska> sorry folks .(
18:35:14 #corewars: < joonas> fortunately, jaska's logs didn't catch it. :)
18:35:45 #corewars: < fizmo> with RotPaper ;-)
18:35:50 #corewars: < jaska> /help window logfile
18:35:55 #corewars:  * bvowk wonders
18:36:05 #corewars:  * joonas nips out to look at some rules
18:36:40 #corewars:  * Roy is proud :) (and I suggested that :P)
18:36:48 #corewars: < jaska> my logs are running again
18:36:54 #corewars: < jaska> silly irssi didnt autostart it :(
18:37:34 #corewars: < Roy> Who has looked into Grindwars before? (hands up)
18:37:34 #corewars: < jaska> thanks for lettin me know
18:37:45 #corewars:  * joonas lifts hand
18:37:51 #corewars: < joonas> jaska: thanks
18:38:03 #corewars: < Roy> I want to start programming for Gridwars, do you try it?
18:38:06 #corewars: < bvowk> I've looked, but there isn't any open code, the site is crap!
18:38:10 #corewars: < joonas> #corewar life is complete again with logs.
18:38:26 #corewars: < willvarfa> Robert did well, didn't he?  and then in the end he seemed unhappy with the organisation iirc
18:38:28 #corewars:  * joonas wants to win a HP cluster
18:38:47 #corewars:  * Roy doesn't want the cluster, just fame
18:39:01 #corewars: < Roy> He wasn't but it sounds like fun..
18:39:33 #corewars: < willvarfa> ok Roy, you win and I'll keep the kit for you!
18:39:37 #corewars: < bvowk> got a link for the hp cluster give away joonas?
18:39:49 #corewars: < joonas> hang on
18:40:05 #corewars: < Roy> Will: You have a deal :P
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18:40:57 #corewars: < joonas> no, no link. here's the info:
18:41:02 #corewars: < joonas> Grand Prize Specifications:  HP LC Series Cluster in a 14U rack with:
18:41:03 #corewars: < joonas> *        One (1) DL380 control node with Intel Xeon 3.06 GHz Processor,
18:41:03 #corewars: < joonas> one GB DDR memory, 72 GB disc drive
18:41:03 #corewars: < joonas> *        Four (4) DL140 compute nodes, each with Intel Xeon 3.2 GHz
18:41:03 #corewars: < joonas> processor, 1 GB DDR and 80 GB ATA disc drive
18:41:03 #corewars: < joonas> *        10/100 Ethernet with ProCurve 2650 switch
18:41:05 #corewars: < joonas> *        Keyboard, mouse and monitor
18:41:07 #corewars: < joonas> *        Choice of Linux or Windows OS
18:41:09 #corewars: < joonas> *        Four (4) Licenses CxC Development Environment and CxC Compiler
18:41:11 #corewars: < joonas> for Windows, four (4) CxC Run-time Environment licenses for Linux or
18:41:13 #corewars: < joonas> Windows (depending on the cluster OS choice)
18:41:15 #corewars: < joonas> (end of info=
18:41:17 #corewars: < joonas> )
18:41:26 #corewars: < bvowk> what do you have to do?
18:41:38 #corewars: < joonas> win a programming competition.
18:41:56 #corewars: < Roy> Its a bit like corewars, you have evolvers too I think..
18:42:01 #corewars: < will_varf> damn, itaniums would have been nice
18:42:14 #corewars: < Roy> (if I'm correct evolvers won the first tournament and beat Robert)
18:42:16 #corewars: < will_varf> shall we enter a team effort? can you do that?
18:42:23 #corewars: < joonas> the environment is a massively parallel grid and your goal is to "own" all the nodes.
18:42:24 #corewars: < Roy> Sure you can...
18:42:55 #corewars: < jaska> 100Mbit ethernet only? lame.
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18:46:47 #corewars: < joonas> so for RF17 your goal is to find the little guy, put him in your wipe loop, and wipe RotP out using da m@g1ck 5t3Ps
18:47:11 #corewars: < joonas> too bad finding the little guy is so hard!
18:47:38 #corewars: < Roy> Yep, I suggested that little bastard (three lines...bleh)
18:48:21 #corewars: < joonas> bah, you could've suggested one that colours core more evenly!!
18:48:43 #corewars: < joonas> now we can't scan for bombs.
18:48:50 #corewars: < joonas> hm... maybe we ca.
18:48:52 #corewars: < joonas> n
18:48:59 #corewars:  * joonas is inspired
18:49:06 #corewars:  * joonas checks for qscan in rotp
18:49:19 #corewars: < will_varf> lol
18:49:23 #corewars: < joonas> woot!
18:49:26 #corewars: < joonas> no qscan.
18:49:41 #corewars: < will_varf> so joonas, you going to enter rf17?
18:49:55 #corewars: < joonas> nah, just brainstorming
18:50:49 #corewars: < Roy> You should..
18:51:05 #corewars:  * Roy was thinking about all ties :P 2 points for total tie
18:53:40 #corewars: < bvowk> hrm
18:53:49 #corewars: < bvowk> gridwars doesn't seem to have the linux version avail anymore
18:54:19 #corewars: < Roy> I has...there is a piece about Linux, I saw it
18:54:21 #corewars: < Roy> hold on
18:55:00 #corewars: < bvowk> it used to be a link right beside the windows link
18:55:10 #corewars: < will_varf> is it me or are the rules really vague?
18:55:47 #corewars: < Roy> The rules aren't vague, just read the Gridwars.pdf its clear
18:56:25 #corewars: < will_varf> ah cool, I will
18:56:38 #corewars:  * will_varf goes off thinking about CxC instead of redcode argggh
18:57:08 #corewars: < Roy> Its a nice sidestep from the normal redcode :)
18:57:37 #corewars: < Roy> But it all seems so simple/easy....you only know about 8 neighbours, and nothing else, no real strategies etc (??)
18:58:18 #corewars: < joonas> I don't like the way there's a qualification round that's a multiwarrior kind of setup and then a one-on-one round for the qualified contestants.
18:58:31 #corewars: < will_varf> depends if you pass information about your neighbours to your other neighbours..
18:59:22 #corewars: < joonas> Robert Macrae posted an interesting article to rgc about the various ideas that go into a grid warrior.
19:00:50 #corewars: < will_varf> do you submit .cxc or .runs?
19:01:01 #corewars: < Roy> cxc
19:01:10 #corewars: < Roy> They have to be able to check the source
19:01:16 #corewars: < Roy> (I think..)
19:01:55 -!- Mizcu is now known as Mizaway
19:02:00 #corewars: < will_varf> have to go!
19:02:03 #corewars: < joonas> bye
19:02:04 #corewars:  * will_varf *waves*
19:02:06 -!- will_varf [~Will@arken-16-57-61.ip-pluggen.com] has quit [Lämnar]
19:02:07 #corewars:  * Roy waves
19:02:21 #corewars: < Roy> You could do some teamplay, thats nice
19:02:35 #corewars: < Roy> (playing together with friendly neighbours)
19:02:57 #corewars: < Roy> We could practise here localy together if more cw people start gw'ing
19:04:05 #corewars: < joonas> hm.. notice how will's silver bullet get 31/51/11 in the self-fight part of RF16...
19:04:24 #corewars: < joonas> that's quite an unlucky score.
19:04:35 #corewars: < Roy> Yes, he would have won if it was evenly I guess
19:05:04 #corewars: < joonas> oh wait.. that was for the round-robin part.
19:08:17 #corewars: < fizmo> forgot to upload the R16 folder. Now online
19:24:00 -!- CoreChild [~d432ba35@brparcunix.cidadeinternet.com.br] has joined #corewars
19:24:10 #corewars: < CoreChild> No more *clicking*
19:24:15 #corewars: < joonas> hi
19:24:16 #corewars: < joonas> ?
19:24:18 #corewars: < fizmo> hi
19:24:27 #corewars: < CoreChild> Wow, Hi everyone... all here at once.
19:24:37 #corewars: < joonas> oh, heh. brparcunix
19:24:37 #corewars: < Roy> yep
19:24:39 #corewars: < Roy> hi
19:30:00 #corewars: < CoreChild> Nice rules for RF17
19:31:28 #corewars: < Roy> Thanks :)
19:31:46 #corewars:  * CoreChild is looking forward to the 20th anniversary meeting
19:32:22 #corewars: < Roy> Me too, I would like to see all of you, could spark whole new ideas
19:32:33 #corewars: < Roy> Intresting conversations, and beer!
19:32:37 #corewars: < Roy> (huh joonas ;))
19:32:55 #corewars: < joonas> heh
19:34:38 #corewars: < fizmo> testing who could programm a warrior after 3, 7 and 9 imps, erhmm beers
19:35:01 #corewars:  * joonas has got dibs for the imp. :)
19:35:03 #corewars:  * Roy would take on the 9 challenge!
19:35:19 #corewars: < Roy> I like giving imp-rings to all my friends
19:37:11 #corewars: < fizmo> heh, would be hard to survive drinking beers with finnish people
19:37:27 #corewars:  * CoreChild doesn't drink beer
19:38:26 #corewars: < Roy> You are english right? from the land of the pubs?
19:38:39 -!- Mizaway is now known as Miz
19:38:50 #corewars: < joonas> bah.. this finn isn't much of a drinker
19:39:12 #corewars: < CoreChild> I drink almost anything, apart from beer and cider
19:39:17 #corewars: < CoreChild> Horrid stuff
19:39:49 -!- Neog [Neog@pc6204.unirioja.es] has joined #corewars
19:39:58 #corewars: < Neog> wow
19:40:08 #corewars: < fizmo> Hi!
19:40:18 #corewars: < fizmo> Round 17 rules are online now ;-)
19:40:19 #corewars: < Neog> HiFizmo
19:40:25 #corewars: < joonas> hallo neo
19:40:57 #corewars: < Neog> hello Joonas
19:41:48 #corewars: < Neog> r17 looking good
19:42:02 #corewars: < joonas> we were just discussing how CoreChild doesn't drink beer or cider.
19:42:06 #corewars: < joonas> everyone's astounded!
19:42:12 #corewars: < CoreChild> Hi.
19:42:46 #corewars: < fizmo> does guiness count as beer?
19:42:53 #corewars: < fizmo> ;-)
19:43:23 #corewars:  * Miz opens a bottle of coke
19:43:42 #corewars: < Neog> hi CC 
19:44:17 #corewars:  * fizmo grabs his class vanilla coke
19:44:54 #corewars:  * Roy walks to the water tap
19:45:09 #corewars: < Neog> Grabun may pop up soon after reading "beer" :]
19:45:29 #corewars: < joonas> lol
19:45:49 #corewars: < joonas> yes, he would.
19:46:21 #corewars:  * Roy is scared of lukasz..
19:46:56 #corewars: < fizmo> :)
19:49:24 #corewars:  * Neog wonders
19:52:50 #corewars: < grabek> where's beer?
19:53:09 #corewars: < Roy> lol
19:55:24 #corewars: < grabek> ./ping all
19:55:35 #corewars: < grabek> ./rattle all
19:55:57 #corewars: < Roy> nothing happening, you stunned them
19:56:15 #corewars: < Neog> pong
19:56:23 #corewars:  * brx empties his coke
19:56:56 #corewars: < brx> get ready for enigma
19:57:52 #corewars: < grabek> what's enigma?
19:58:16 #corewars: < Miz> problem/mystery
19:58:33 #corewars: < joonas> brx: why did you ;kill moreyuckyuck ?
19:59:43 #corewars: < brx> joonas: .. it's been over two weeks now.
19:59:58 #corewars: < brx> it's not like i'm able to remember..
20:00:02 #corewars:  * brx smiles
20:00:57 #corewars: < joonas> oh. well congrats on getting 15th place nevertheless!
20:01:05 #corewars: < brx> oh come on
20:01:06 #corewars: < brx> :(
20:01:24 #corewars: < joonas> what?  130 points isn't bad at all!
20:01:24 #corewars: < brx> i mean thank you... but... i had imps under moreyuckyuck. imps and dat0s
20:01:25 #corewars: < brx> ^^
20:01:55 #corewars: < brx> sure, yet it scored its points against the fill warriors
20:02:12 #corewars: < brx> it's not hard winning against dat #0, #0 :)
20:02:46 #corewars: < joonas> well, if you say so.
20:03:01 #corewars: < brx> #corewars told me ^^
20:03:06 #corewars: < brx> well, i suspected.
20:03:15 #corewars: < brx> before they assured me of it ;)
20:03:29 #corewars: < joonas> I just thought that since you're able to get on the hill in the first place, you'd be more thrilled that you seem.
20:03:37 #corewars: < brx> but thanks for encouraging the newbie :)
20:03:40 #corewars: < joonas> took me *ages* to get on the -b hill.
20:03:47 #corewars: < brx> on sal beginners?
20:04:00 #corewars: < joonas> well, no, sal wasn't here then.
20:04:04 #corewars: < brx> see? ^^
20:04:11 #corewars: < joonas> oh, shut up! :)
20:04:13 #corewars: < CoreChild> Not everyone beats imp
20:04:24 #corewars: < Neog> brx: Notice at that time dinosaurs were walking on the earth
20:04:31 #corewars: < brx> okay CoreChild, i read r.g.c too :)
20:04:50 #corewars: < brx> joonas: which beginners hill are you talking about
20:05:11 #corewars: < joonas> the one on pizza. but pizza is down for the forseeable past & future.
20:05:20 #corewars: < brx> joonas: moreyuckyuck failed on every other beginners hill.
20:05:47 #corewars: < joonas> ah, well that's no reason to keep working on the hills.
20:06:12 #corewars: < brx> i know, but the paper layout was flawed..
20:06:22 #corewars: < joonas> since you've got your foot in one of them at least, that's like the most difficult part already done!
20:06:28 #corewars: < Miz> cwsf-beginner would be easy to get on with a good stone        (pebble is not good ;)
20:06:54 #corewars: < brx> Miz: see, moreyuckyuck failed horrible at entering that hill
20:07:01 #corewars: < brx> s/horrible/horribly
20:07:14 #corewars: < brx> joonas: :)
20:07:19 #corewars: < Miz> brx:  there are soo many oneshots there that anything weaker that silk4 cannot survive here
20:07:25 #corewars: < joonas> although, I see your point about dat 0's but looking at the sal -b hill, I can't see any there.
20:07:43 #corewars: < Miz> (and silk4 missed koth 'nop only by o point or two when it was sent)
20:07:48 #corewars: < brx> joonas: well ask miz about the two warriors he has on sal-b ^^
20:08:01 #corewars: < Miz> (and i mean any PAPER weaker than)
20:08:14 #corewars: < brx> Miz: hm
20:08:22 #corewars: < joonas> miz: ? you have dat 0's on sal?
20:08:25 #corewars: < brx> well.. enigma is a hybrid
20:08:34 #corewars: < Miz> joonas: no
20:08:40 #corewars: < joonas> brx: see!
20:08:44 #corewars:  * brx grins
20:09:01 #corewars: < Miz> the dat 0 on there has been already dropped
20:09:06 #corewars: < brx> lol yes
20:09:12 #corewars: < joonas> lol
20:09:52 #corewars: < brx> okay you did it, i am in corewars mood, i will continue writing
20:09:56 #corewars: < brx> my warrior
20:10:01 #corewars: < joonas> yay!
20:10:13 #corewars: < joonas> :q!
20:10:18 #corewars: < joonas> damn vi
20:10:27 #corewars: < Neog> blur-style scanners always score nicely on beginner hills
20:11:00 #corewars: < Miz> and dont i have currently 4 warriors on sal-b ?
20:11:28 #corewars: < brx> 4?
20:11:37 #corewars: < brx> i don't know, i saw pebbles and sugartooth
20:11:52 #corewars: < brx> and pebbles has beaten moreyuckyuck.
20:12:01 #corewars: < Miz> scizzory, stoney, test3 and sugartooth on sal-b
20:12:06 #corewars: < Miz> pebble on cwsf-b
20:13:18 #corewars: < CoreChild> Two minutes and I must go :-/
20:15:01 #corewars: < brx> ah it was stoney, right
20:15:15 #corewars: < brx> well pebb and stoney won against myy
20:15:19 #corewars: < brx> bye cc
20:15:33 #corewars:  * joonas waves
20:15:41 #corewars:  * Neog waves
20:16:20 #corewars:  * fizmo waves
20:16:34 #corewars: < Miz> ahh...  agaist stoney MYY loses 22.3% , wins 70.5% and ties 7.2%
20:17:09 #corewars: < Miz> you are watching it the wrong way, you BEAT those at the bottom and LOSE to those at the top =P
20:17:33 #corewars:  * grabek waves
20:17:48 #corewars: < Miz> scizzory beats myy awfully and test3 just ties and ties
20:18:00 #corewars: < brx> well miz, i LOST against sugar while scoring better.
20:18:22 #corewars: < Miz> So it is time for more optimization 
20:18:43 #corewars: < brx> enigma is more promising ^^
20:19:31 #corewars:  * CoreChild waves
20:19:48 -!- Roy [~roy_van_r@kf-mss-cb01-00480.dial.kabelfoon.nl] has quit []
20:23:05 #corewars:  * Neog should be going too...
20:23:16 #corewars:  * joonas has a monk to attend to
20:23:55 #corewars:  * fizmo must go, too
20:24:04 -!- michal [~michal@host-ip2-246.crowley.pl] has joined #corewars
20:24:05 #corewars: < brx> bye you all
20:24:06 #corewars: < fizmo> bye, all
20:24:07 #corewars: < brx> hi michal 
20:24:14 #corewars: < michal> hi
20:24:15 -!- fizmo [~fizmo_mas@pD9E6EA35.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []
20:25:24 #corewars: < Neog> hi michal
20:26:20 -!- CoreChild [~d432ba35@brparcunix.cidadeinternet.com.br] has quit [WebChat -> www.vIRCio.org  (EOF)]
20:26:52 #corewars: < Neog> i'm going too
20:26:59 #corewars:  * Neog waves
20:27:05 -!- Neog [Neog@pc6204.unirioja.es] has quit []
20:27:52 #corewars: < michal> hm. everyone is leaving as soon as I get on the channel..
20:28:24 -!- joonas [jpihlaja@kruuna.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
20:30:15 #corewars: < grabek> sure, all you go.
20:30:20 #corewars: < grabek> leave me alone.
20:30:23 #corewars: < brx> ^^
20:31:03 #corewars: < grabek> michal: have you checked your breath?
20:47:22 -!- joonas [jpihlaja@kruuna.helsinki.fi] has joined #corewars
20:47:29 #corewars: < bvowk> greets joonas
20:47:34 #corewars: < joonas> hi.
20:48:03 #corewars: < joonas> any hints you can give me on defeating a gold golem?
20:48:26 #corewars: < bvowk> use a big weapon :)
20:48:35 #corewars: < bvowk> if you're weak, run..
20:48:39 #corewars: < bvowk> or use a wand of digging
20:48:55 #corewars: < brx> gold golem
20:48:56 #corewars: < brx> nethack?
20:49:05 #corewars: < bvowk> wand of cancellation should kill it as well
20:49:09 #corewars: < joonas> brx: yes.
20:49:19 #corewars: < brx> can anyone teach me how to...survive?
20:49:21 #corewars: < joonas> bvowk: right, that's what I want then.
20:49:25 #corewars: < bvowk> magicbane will cancel golems if its not enchanted very hi
20:49:25 #corewars: < brx> i always die on the first level
20:49:29 #corewars: < grabek> joonas: two will be just fine
20:49:41 #corewars: < joonas> grabek: ok. :)
20:50:07 #corewars:  * brx cries
20:51:40 #corewars: < joonas> aw
20:52:02 #corewars: < joonas> bvowk says that the key to nethack is patience.
20:55:55 #corewars: < grabek> can someone check colors on my page
20:56:15 #corewars: < grabek> i don't like them
20:57:20 #corewars: < joonas> I quite like them.
20:57:31 #corewars: < joonas> logo especially.
20:57:42 #corewars: < joonas> very pink pantherish
20:59:38 #corewars: < grabek> :-)
21:00:39 #corewars: < grabek> that's 50's styled font
21:02:23 #corewars: < grabek> is there an english proverb that describes
21:02:46 #corewars: < grabek> situation when there's too many things to choose from
21:02:53 #corewars:  * joonas is angered at Infocom Nepal!
21:03:22 #corewars: < joonas> everyone, infact, who thinks CW is Darwin!
21:04:12 #corewars: < joonas> IIRC, even the entry in Foldoc got that bit wrong... *grr*
21:04:14 #corewars: < grabek> lol
21:04:26 #corewars: < grabek> i don't quite get it what you say
21:05:08 #corewars: < joonas> I can only assume that the "game for programmers [developed in the 60s]" is darwin.
21:05:29 #corewars: < joonas> (there's /me jumping to conclusions also, but nevermind.)
21:06:07 #corewars: < joonas> I'm reading your entry "Virii paranoia"
21:06:13 #corewars: < grabek> oh
21:06:26 #corewars: < grabek> is darwin *that* old?
21:06:40 #corewars: < joonas> no, probably not, now you mention it.
21:06:57 #corewars: < joonas> certainly much older than CW though.
21:08:21 #corewars: < joonas> I think you miss the point in that entry though: the fact that redcode is portable, minimalistic, and not *particular*, is IMHO not why people associate CW with viruses.
21:08:30 #corewars: < joonas> It's Dewdney's fault.
21:09:16 #corewars: < grabek> it was that 80's viruses paranoia
21:09:29 #corewars: < joonas> It's apparent in the SciAm articles, and even more blatantly put in his post to r.g.c. (via Zul, or Roy, or ...)
21:09:32 #corewars: < grabek> viruses, worms, hackers, war games, things
21:10:04 #corewars: < joonas> "you will soon be called on to fight the great fight in serversland!" (paraphrasing from memory)
21:10:04 #corewars: < joonas> Bah!
21:10:17 #corewars: < grabek> aw yes, i recall now
21:10:26 #corewars: < grabek> something in this spirit, yes
21:11:57 #corewars: < grabek> on the other hand
21:12:06 #corewars: < grabek> i remember how *hard* it was to program a virus
21:12:14 #corewars: < grabek> mine was pretty lousy
21:12:34 #corewars: < grabek> it searched for all exe files on the disk
21:12:44 #corewars: < grabek> (not in once, obviously)
21:12:56 #corewars: < grabek> and wiped its header with its own code
21:13:09 #corewars: < joonas> and your point?
21:13:12 #corewars: < grabek> exe was destroyed but the virus could be executed
21:13:46 #corewars: < grabek> what i mean is that viruses are incomparable more difficult to write
21:13:47 #corewars: < Miz> in corewars it take no more than few minutes to code such program
21:13:53 #corewars: < grabek> s/able/ably/
21:14:15 #corewars: < grabek> that's the point, Miz
21:16:27 #corewars: < joonas> I see now.
21:16:50 #corewars: < grabek> that's why all that gibberish is pretty pointless
21:17:15 #corewars: < grabek> i mean, the connection between cw and viruses
21:17:31 #corewars: < Miz> And in real life you have to search for exploits and weaknesses to get your program to infect others.
21:17:34 #corewars: < joonas> so, the fact that a CW environment is so far abstracted from a realistic environment that no valid comparison can be made.
21:17:46 #corewars: < joonas> this is I think what you're saying.
21:17:55 #corewars: < grabek> not to mention that a group of internet users who actually know what cw is are strictly countable
21:18:04 #corewars: < grabek> sure, joonas
21:18:15 #corewars: < grabek> scratch the 'are'
21:18:36 #corewars: < grabek> cw, as i recall, was to reflect risc instructions
21:19:10 #corewars: < grabek> it is very, i'd say, dedicated (or devoted), hence limited
21:19:27 #corewars: < joonas> well don't we who know then have a responsibility of disillusioning the public about the game, if only to tell them that we don't represent a threat to anyone's national security?
21:19:46 #corewars: < grabek> lol
21:20:00 #corewars: < joonas> no, I don't think it's funny.
21:20:13 #corewars: < grabek> sure, we should, wrapped in a red banners, on our annual meeting, go outside and yell
21:20:22 #corewars: < grabek> "we do not infect your computers"
21:20:24 #corewars: < joonas> the amount of cyberterror hype in the world is beoynd funny.
21:20:35 #corewars: < joonas> hah, yes. :)
21:20:35 #corewars: < grabek> joonas: you're pulling my lef
21:20:39 #corewars: < grabek> s/lef/leg/
21:21:09 #corewars: < joonas> don't think I'm saying that people actively point to CW and say "here, put those guys on the watch list"
21:21:29 #corewars: < grabek> you're aware that cw are abandonware, actually
21:21:44 #corewars: < Miz> isnt cw pd?
21:21:53 #corewars: < grabek> *and* that computer viruses are now made for different purposes they used to be
21:22:01 #corewars: < grabek> i meant, the ideology
21:22:26 #corewars: < grabek> imo now it is business and very serious money that stand behind all of that
21:23:04 #corewars: < grabek> how one can impair Microsoft omnipotence?
21:23:30 #corewars: < joonas> well all I'm saying is that should you ever have a conversation online or otherwise where another party is promoting/misremembering CW as a "virus writer's game", you should diplomatically point out their error.
21:23:59 #corewars: < grabek> surely
21:24:18 #corewars:  * joonas feels bad about not having done so
21:24:23 #corewars: < grabek> otoh, from the theoretical point of view
21:24:45 #corewars: < grabek> writing corewar warrior is equivalent of writing a virus
21:25:26 #corewars: < joonas> didn't we cover this part already by showing that the CW model is so far abstracted from reality that it doesn't compare.
21:25:41 #corewars: < joonas> even theoretical reality, IMO.
21:26:00 #corewars: < grabek> i think it does compare. in theory.
21:26:08 #corewars: < joonas> how?
21:26:12 #corewars: < grabek> a virus is a program that consumes computer resources
21:26:22 #corewars: < grabek> it does not really matter how it is done
21:26:32 #corewars: < grabek> whether this is simple TSR
21:26:50 #corewars: < grabek> or it infects your data file and breed like a rabbit
21:26:58 #corewars: < grabek> s/file/files/
21:27:23 #corewars: < Miz> CW has already consumed 30 computers from bvowk *g* 
21:27:25 #corewars: < grabek> it's purpose is to breed (consuming resources)
21:27:42 #corewars: < grabek> in cw,
21:27:52 #corewars: < grabek> assuming your oponnent is a computer program
21:27:59 #corewars: < grabek> and your program is a virus
21:28:18 #corewars: < grabek> you make your oponnent write a certain instuction and disable it
21:28:34 #corewars: < grabek> hence, you have all resources for yourself
21:28:41 #corewars:  * joonas waits patiently for the punchline
21:29:48 #corewars: < grabek> no punchline
21:30:09 #corewars: < grabek> vampires are straightforward example
21:30:38 #corewars: < joonas> in that case, I think you're theoretical model of resource consumption is overly broad.
21:31:41 #corewars: < grabek> ok, so what is a theoretical model of a virus?
21:31:57 #corewars: < grabek> if you were to sketch a block model?
21:32:34 #corewars: < joonas> fair enough, I suppose.
21:33:07 #corewars: < Miz> a program that changes computers behaviour
21:34:01 #corewars: < grabek> it's not a virus
21:34:24 #corewars: < grabek> this program can, for example, intercept ctrl-alt-del sequence
21:34:34 #corewars: < grabek> you wouldn't call this program a virus
21:35:01 #corewars: < joonas> the old fashioned viruses I think would go along the lines of your example: a program that "infects" other parts of your system.
21:35:33 #corewars: < Miz> grabek: do you say that virus must have a mechanism to "survive" to be a true virus?
21:37:36 #corewars: < grabek> yes, to survive, which means, to spread its copies all over infected system
21:38:06 #corewars: < joonas> the model with worms of today are, I think, mostly concerned with propagation over networks, regardless of the infection mechanism.
21:38:44 #corewars: < grabek> i had a book on this; i can't find it atm however
21:39:08 #corewars: < joonas> also a good read on securityfocus a few weeks ago, but it's gone from the front page.
21:40:19 -!- michal [~michal@host-ip2-246.crowley.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
21:40:50 #corewars: < grabek> it's gone, somewhere
21:41:00 #corewars: < joonas> anyway, in CW there is no such thing as an "exploit" (excepting white warrior rounds in tournaments.)
21:41:53 #corewars: < joonas> it's much more based on a kind of statistical cost-benefit analysis of the author that's done when optimising a warrior.
21:42:54 #corewars:  * bvowk rattles joonas
21:42:57 #corewars: < Miz> "A virus is a program with the ability to 'attach' itself automatically in some way to other programs when loaded, thus infecting those programs" - Antivir help file
21:42:58 #corewars: < grabek> it depends on how far with your similarities you want to wander to
21:43:04 #corewars: < joonas> you just don't have that with viruses because they are vastly more fine-tuned to the kind of environment (in the white warrior sense.)
21:43:38 #corewars: < grabek> in multiwarrior environment an ability to intercept other programs maybe crucial, for this example
21:44:08 #corewars: < Miz> Are cw's warriors worms rather than viruses?
21:45:01 #corewars: < grabek> maybe
21:45:14 #corewars: < grabek> i don't know if i really understand the difference
21:45:40 #corewars: < Miz> Viruses require program hosts, while worms are autonomous.
21:45:53 #corewars: < Miz> (And our program host would be pmars =/ )
21:46:23 #corewars: < bvowk> ok, I've tried 2.1 Billion times to make a scanner.. and I've got diddely.. I give up on scanners
21:46:52 #corewars: < bvowk> worms reproduce on their own, viruses require a carrier
21:47:43 #corewars: < grabek> ain't a virus a small executable program?
21:47:51 #corewars: < joonas> well maybe there is a case to be made for comparing worm propagation in a 'net to a paper's propagation in core.
21:48:06 #corewars: < joonas> (even then, IMHO, it's a very far fetched comparison.)
21:49:00 #corewars: < joonas> depends on your definition of program I guess.
21:50:16 #corewars: < joonas> I think the old style file/bootblock viruses would be more like program fragments.
21:50:23 #corewars:  * joonas calms down and stops ranting
21:53:13 #corewars:  * grabek goes to analytic functions, again
21:53:51 #corewars:  * grabek has master degree exam *very* soon
21:54:03 #corewars: < grabek> cu all
21:54:10 #corewars:  * joonas waves cheerfully
21:54:25 #corewars:  * grabek waves hopefully
21:58:42 -!- michal [~michal@host-ip2-246.crowley.pl] has joined #corewars
22:00:34 #corewars: < brx> master degree in?
22:01:27 #corewars: < joonas> mathematics (iirc, stochastic differential equations.)
22:01:49 #corewars: < brx> ah that
22:01:54 #corewars: < brx> is what i am going to study
22:02:15 #corewars: < brx> 2 days left in school ^^
22:02:23 #corewars: < joonas> stochastic diff. eq?
22:02:28 #corewars: < joonas> or just maths in general.
22:02:58 #corewars: < bvowk> you going to get your Phd joonas?
22:03:08 #corewars: < joonas> hah.
22:03:21 #corewars: < brx> mathematics in general ^^
22:03:24 #corewars: < joonas> no, I'm not a graduate student. :)
22:03:37 #corewars: < joonas> brx: sorry I'm being dim. :-/
22:03:45 #corewars: < bvowk> do it up, then you can be my academic advisor and we can hack CW all day :)
22:03:51 #corewars: < brx> it's okay ;)
22:03:55 #corewars:  * brx opens a bottle of beer
22:04:19 #corewars: < joonas> bvowk: well if you think we can get funding... :)
22:04:44 #corewars: < bvowk> you'd just have to put the right spin on it
22:05:29 #corewars: < bvowk> something about gene migration in evolution or something equally straw graspy
22:06:32 #corewars: < joonas> heh.
22:07:05 #corewars: < bvowk> corewars is a model for just about anything if you think about it in just the right (or wrong) way :)
22:07:58 #corewars: < Miz> Participations models of genetics and evolution on the development of programs and neural networks.
22:08:04 #corewars: < bvowk> of course, this log of the evil scheme to turn grant funding into corewars hackery is now tuck in google forever
22:09:19 #corewars: < joonas> well there are only 8 people on now, so if we pay up I'm sure we can change some internet history. ;-)
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22:12:15 #corewars: < joonas> hm. just got my test run results back and lots of cases to debug.
22:12:23 #corewars: < joonas> seeya
22:12:24 -!- joonas [jpihlaja@kruuna.helsinki.fi] has quit [ircII2.8.2-EPIC3.004+Kasi --- Bloatware at its finest.]
22:19:07 -!- bvowk [~bvowk@h24-67-137-90.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [using sirc version 2.211+ssfe]
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22:47:31 #corewars: < brx> when enigma reached the 300 line barrier i deleted it ^^
22:47:44 #corewars: < brx> i didn't even notice it became that big.
22:51:49 #corewars: < Miz> Someone tell he how the hell someone can accidentally make 300 line warrior..
23:14:30 #corewars: < brx> i was just writing the components..
23:14:56 #corewars: < brx> typing away..
23:15:05 #corewars: < brx> now drinking beer and watching animees
23:15:06 #corewars: < brx> ^^
23:15:16 #corewars: < brx> miz, you're a lovely guy :P
23:16:30 #corewars: < Miz> I dont know if this was just a guess, or knowing other similiar freaks, but using ^^ -smilies is always a mark of someone that watches anime ^^ .
23:17:58 #corewars: < brx> actually i know this smiley from a friend of mine who does not really know any anime.. he loves mmorpgs though.
23:19:18 #corewars: < brx> but yes, i know that it is a "japanese" smiley :)
23:21:06 #corewars: < Miz> what anime going currently?
23:21:18 #corewars: < brx> *cough* onegai teacher ^^
23:22:05 #corewars: < Miz> Familiar name. Havent myself fetched any episodes yet.
23:22:28 #corewars: < brx> it's the story of a student falling in love with his alien teacher.
23:22:55 #corewars: < brx> girly stuff mostly.
23:23:17 #corewars: < brx> beer is advised
23:23:48 #corewars: < brx> oh. they get it on quickly.
23:25:40 #corewars: < brx> they did it all for the nookie i would say.
23:44:27 #corewars: < brx> do you know onegai twins?
23:44:42 #corewars: < brx> i am looking for that piano instrumental from episode 9
23:44:47 #corewars: < Miz> heard the name
23:44:49 #corewars: < brx> it's beautiful
23:45:16 #corewars: < brx> actually it reminds me of a movie score i once heard i believe..
23:45:17 #corewars: < brx> darn
23:45:37 #corewars: < brx> if i had an instrument i would try to play the melody :(
23:46:34 #corewars: < brx> actually whenever i hear this melody i kind of have to cry ^^
23:48:49 #corewars: < brx> come on miz, don't be so grumpy
23:48:54 #corewars: < brx> :P
23:49:42 #corewars: < Miz> *grump*
23:51:24 #corewars: < brx> how old are you
23:51:27 #corewars: < brx> 18.
23:51:33 #corewars: < brx> still going to school?
23:52:02 #corewars: < Miz> 18 3/4 , still on highschool
23:52:34 #corewars: < brx> i am 19 1/6 finishing school in 2 days ;)
23:53:00 #corewars: < brx> actually, 19 1/4
23:53:38 #corewars: < michal> brx, if/when you find that piece of music, let me know, okay?
23:54:02 #corewars: < Miz> you could just cut the piece from the file
23:54:09 #corewars: < brx> michal: have you been looking for the piano instrumental of onegai twin's ninth episode too? ^^
23:54:28 #corewars: < brx> Miz: yes, thought about that. but maybe there is a .. complete version out there
23:55:24 #corewars: < michal> not really, but I'm eager to hear something so beautiful that makes people cry :)
23:55:39 #corewars: < michal> I'm serious
23:56:21 #corewars: < brx> hm the melody is simple, its pace is quick, imagine stepping on a stairs, up up up -2 up up up -2
23:56:22 #corewars: < Miz> There is a small chance that i might find a version from winmx, but i doubt there really is a version anywhere.
23:56:28 #corewars: < brx> michal: okay
23:56:54 #corewars: < brx> Miz: i tend to find music like this. i will see
23:57:53 #corewars: < brx> the melody in itself is not sad i think, michal.
23:58:30 #corewars: < brx> resembles recurrent hope
23:59:24 #corewars: < brx> hum
23:59:26 #corewars: < michal> and what anime did you like the most, so far?
23:59:46 #corewars: < brx> that's a tough question..
--- Log closed Tue Mar 02 00:00:15 2004