--- Log opened Mon Feb 16 00:00:08 2004
00:09:36 #corewars: < jakub> gotta go
00:09:39 #corewars: < jakub> bye
00:09:52 -!- jakub [~jakub@chello217023243176.chello.sk] has quit [leaving]
00:11:15 #corewars: < brx> ah me too
00:11:17 #corewars: < brx> bye!
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02:50:29 #corewars: < phunk> Hello
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07:05:21 #corewars: < grabek> phunk: i am off to work
07:05:27 #corewars: < grabek> it is 7 am here ;-)
07:06:33 #corewars: < phunk> Later
07:18:02 -!- Mr_Alert [1001@cpe-66-27-200-2.socal.rr.com] has joined #corewars
07:18:13 #corewars: < phunk> Hey, Alert.
07:18:16 #corewars: < Mr_Alert> Hello.
07:18:29 #corewars: < Mr_Alert> Accidentally disconnected from the other IRC server. :/
07:18:34 #corewars: < phunk> Guys, this is Mr_Alert. I told him about CW, and he finds that he enjoys it as well.
07:18:51 #corewars: < Mr_Alert> There we go.
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10:30:58 -!- Mizcu [Mizcu@dsl-hkigw4m4a.dial.inet.fi] has joined #corewars
10:38:07 #corewars: < willvarfa> hello Mizcu
10:40:41 #corewars: < Mizcu> hi will
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12:07:58 #corewars:  * Roy lurks in
12:08:14 #corewars: < Mizcu> you lurker
12:09:48 #corewars: < will_varf> bbl
12:09:50 #corewars:  * will_varf *waves*
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14:25:24 #corewars:  * brx bows
14:26:43 #corewars:  * brx grunts
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16:23:09 #corewars: < brx> hi
16:24:36 #corewars: < willvarfa> hello brx
16:58:39 !irc.koth.org *** Looking up your hostname...
16:58:39 !irc.koth.org *** Checking Ident
16:58:39 !irc.koth.org *** No Ident response
16:58:43 !irc.koth.org *** Found your hostname
16:58:44 !irc.koth.org *** Your host is irc.koth.org[216.231.108.170/6667], running version 2.8/hybrid-6.3.1
16:58:44 -!- Mode change [+i] for user jk_log
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17:30:36 #corewars: < brx> q
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18:16:17 #corewars: < Mizcu> hi spike/whitepawn
18:16:38 #corewars: < spikefrui> hi
18:16:48 #corewars: < spikefrui> hey, you remembered me, lol
18:18:45 #corewars: < Mizcu> Not very big channel, so i remember just about everyone new
18:22:22 #corewars: < brx> hey Mizcu
18:22:59 #corewars: < spikefrui> lol
18:25:14 #corewars: < Mizcu> brx: yes?
18:26:16 #corewars: < brx> how should a warrior fare against wilmoo and wilfiz before being sent to a beginner hill
18:27:33 #corewars: < Mizcu> you need around 80-100 to enter sourceforge-beginner, on sal you need about 120+ to get at top position
18:28:01 #corewars:  * brx begins to cry
18:28:12 #corewars: < Mizcu> (sal has 2 slots still open so whatevery you will send it will enter surely)
18:29:26 #corewars: < brx> yes
18:29:28 #corewars: < Mizcu> i said yesterday that wilkies is a bit better benchmark if you dont want to get depressed :)
18:29:31 #corewars: < brx> and with dat0 on the hill
18:29:47 #corewars: < brx> i guess we don't have to count dat0
18:30:06 #corewars: < brx>  ^^ haven't tried wilkies yet
18:30:23 #corewars: < brx> anyway, going to send in a warrior to sal
18:30:59 #corewars: < brx> this one is old, a paper, tried to tweak the constants but i guess the weakness lies in its concept
18:31:52 #corewars: < Mizcu> For my first year i couldnt beat 80 wilkies barrier, i got shocked when my first succesful warrior got over 105 wilkies upon testing. The same warrior scores now ~130 wilfiz and ~160 or so wilkies, and i could upgrade it to go a bit further.
18:33:23 #corewars:  * brx nods
18:33:36 #corewars: < brx> let's try wilkies then.... ^^^
18:35:23 #corewars: < Mizcu> (Hee, i still remember my bomber getting 78 wilkies after 2 days of desperate optimization. Now i test the plain stone from my warrior Static and it gets 97 kies 115 fiz)
18:35:31 -!- CoreChild [~d432ba35@brparcunix.cidadeinternet.com.br] has joined #corewars
18:35:40 #corewars: < Mizcu> hi CC
18:35:43 #corewars: < brx> hi cc
18:35:45 #corewars: < brx> i mean
18:35:46 #corewars: < brx> CoreChild: 
18:36:05 #corewars: < brx> btw Mizcu, thank you for sharing some of your experiences ^^
18:36:28 #corewars: < CoreChild> Hi all...
18:49:35 #corewars: < brx> what happened to the dwarf corner
18:49:39 #corewars: < Mizcu> CC: fares average, i would say
18:50:34 #corewars: < Mizcu> brx: my guess is "under construction". Grabek did speak about getting a domain.
18:50:58 -!- Roy [~roy_van_r@kf-mss-cb01-00228.dial.kabelfoon.nl] has joined #corewars
18:51:01 #corewars: < Roy> Good evening
18:51:07 #corewars:  * brx nods
18:51:10 #corewars: < brx> hello Roy 
18:51:20 #corewars: < Roy> hi
18:52:08 #corewars: < brx> hm how do kothrc files look
18:52:27 #corewars: < CoreChild> Hi Roy
18:52:39 #corewars: < brx> it segfaults on me whenever i try to load my new rc, i have lost the source and the link to the source so i am not able to debug it.
18:53:18 #corewars: < Mizcu> you get .rc when you run pmars -r 0 warrior.red
18:54:18 #corewars: < brx> ..
18:54:20 #corewars: < brx> ?
18:55:12 #corewars: < Mizcu> seems we speak of different thing..   file.rc = file containing copiled redcode
18:56:04 #corewars: < brx> kothrc := configuration file for koth
18:57:35 #corewars: < Mizcu> you are running your own hill?
18:57:54 #corewars: < brx> i am running this benchmarking program
18:58:01 #corewars:  * Roy is trying to improve his round 16 warriors
18:58:02 #corewars: < brx> called koth.. grabek sent it to me
18:59:12 #corewars:  * CoreChild has just sent his first RF16 entry
18:59:31 #corewars: < Roy> I'm going 2 different strategies I think this round...
19:00:11 -!- phunk [~daquik@s28.dial1.sne.nac.net] has joined #corewars
19:00:25 #corewars: < Roy> One warrior has his main focus on trying to get as many points possible in the benchmark round, and get some by size....the other is trying to beat as many contestents but use up much of the size (so loses points there)
19:00:47 #corewars: < Mizcu> brx: sounds like some grabun's own software.  The koth i know/use for benchmarking can be found on wilkies-page, and it doesnt use configuration files.
19:01:47 #corewars: < brx> yes well this is a  program ^^
19:03:43 -!- michal [~michal@host-ip2-246.crowley.pl] has joined #corewars
19:03:49 #corewars: < michal> hi
19:04:05 #corewars: < CoreChild> Hi Michal.
19:04:12 #corewars: < brx> hi
19:07:11 #corewars: < CoreChild> Can the functionality of CLP be included in another warrior?
19:07:58 #corewars: < Mizcu> yes, just not as efficiently?
19:08:47 #corewars: < CoreChild> I.e. have a oneshot, which also checks some fences (or whatever you wish to call them) in the scan loop.
19:10:35 #corewars: < Mizcu> problem is in the size, of course
19:10:39 #corewars: < CoreChild> The link for Lukasz's new page doesn't seem to work#
19:12:35 #corewars: < Roy> It works for me..
19:13:16 #corewars: < CoreChild> It could just check a lower fence, since most clears are forwards.
19:13:27 #corewars: < Roy> JM: I think CLP in a oneshot makes it too slow, and you can't check it 1c if you also scan
19:13:43 #corewars: < CoreChild> Roy: could I have a link please :-)
19:14:25 #corewars: < CoreChild> You don't need to check that often though.
19:14:37 #corewars: < Roy> Ohw, I refreshed it from the cache and now not working, you where right
19:14:48 #corewars: < Roy> Temp offline I guess..
19:14:56 #corewars: < CoreChild> .1c would be fine.  Even a d-clear would only wipe 10 cells in that time.  Just move the fence back by 10 cells
19:15:55 #corewars: < Roy> But still, oneshots beat papers, and get killed by stones, how is a CLP-fence going to stop you from being killed by stones?
19:16:10 #corewars: < Roy> Or do you just want more wins against scanners?
19:16:12 #corewars: < CoreChild> Oh, by the way Roy:
19:16:39 #corewars: < CoreChild> 1) OoS constants were picked by hand, and there was no optimization, computer or otherwise.
19:17:14 #corewars: < CoreChild> 2) What kind of warriors are in 1st, 2nd and 4th place on the tiny hill?
19:17:17 #corewars: < CoreChild> ;-)
19:18:11 #corewars: < Mizcu> CC, we still dont believe in the hand-picking , as we dont believe that incredible would have been made with fair code ;)
19:18:36 #corewars: < Roy> I already changed what I said about the tiny hill: MY oneshots seem to do better the MY papers :)
19:19:00 #corewars: < CoreChild> Oh, I admit Incredible didn't use fair code.
19:19:13 #corewars: < CoreChild> However, OoS did have hand picked constants.
19:21:43 #corewars: < Roy> Fair code>Incredible?
19:21:56 #corewars: < Roy> What am i missing? :)
19:22:03 #corewars: < CoreChild> first is obviously just after maxlength*2, dist was just selected to be somewhere around 1/3 coresize, and time just calculated to ensure scanning ends before OoS scans itself.
19:22:34 #corewars: < Mizcu> Roy: dont you remember Incredible! at the draft-hill some time ago?
19:22:45 #corewars: < CoreChild> dist is set so the pattern from the first pointer appears just before the centre of the pattern for the second pointer
19:23:55 #corewars: < CoreChild> Oneshots will not last as long as papers on the tiny hill.  If you want a warrior in the Tiny HoF, paper is a better bet.  Scores from oneshots are too variable.
19:24:41 #corewars: < Roy> Miz: Yes I remember that one, very tiny, scoring well, but how wasn't it fair code?
19:24:48 #corewars: < CoreChild> So when someone enters a new warrior, they will stick with the version which scores best.
19:25:41 #corewars: < Mizcu> Roy: Will joked about it using spz-instruction, and it was ridicilousy small to fare well anyway to be normal code.
19:25:44 #corewars: < Roy> But my papers score so bad :)
19:25:53 #corewars: < CoreChild> And the one which scores best will generally have a higher score against the oneshots, since the scores against papers etc don't vary too much from slight tweaks
19:26:14 #corewars: < Mizcu> There was the quote of the day!  "Roy: my papers score bad"
19:26:29 #corewars: < Roy> (on the tiny hill)
19:26:56 #corewars: < CoreChild> Also, when computer optimizing the constants of something, most of the variation in score will be from battles against oneshots.
19:27:21 #corewars: < Roy> I know that, thats why I don't have oneshots in my benchmark, but that is also a bad thing...
19:27:30 #corewars: < Roy> (Look at II, its VERY weak against oneshots)
19:28:37 #corewars: < Roy> Yes, when CAN we expect to see the code from Incredible :P?
19:29:17 #corewars: < CoreChild> How about making a oneshot to use in a benchmark, which has a table of steps to use and uses a different one every round (controlled by p-space)
19:29:41 #corewars: < Roy> Go aheah, you know my email adres ;-)
19:29:42 #corewars: < CoreChild> That way, you don't optimize against a specific oneshot / step, but against a generalised oneshot.
19:30:29 #corewars: < CoreChild> Incredible will not be published in the form it was on the hill
19:31:15 #corewars: < Mizcu> The clp-in-a-oneshot has started to riddle me..
19:31:28 #corewars: < CoreChild> By the way, I will be finding a new host for my page soon.  It has a new look and lots of new material.
19:31:45 #corewars: < CoreChild> Also, infinite tiny hill is up to 150 entries.
19:32:27 #corewars: < CoreChild> Could be in something other than a oneshot too... just that seems the easiest combination
19:32:28 #corewars: < Mizcu> clear+addseqjmzjmz+boot if you only jump away when found for the first time, but if we want multiple dodges..
19:33:08 #corewars: < Roy> A stone with CLP could be better ... ? stones are more vulnarable to clear?
19:33:18 #corewars: < CoreChild> As a beginner, I tried oneshot/bomb-dodger in the same loop and that worked okay. (high on the beginner hill, low on the pro hill.)
19:33:27 #corewars: < CoreChild> Hmmm... time to go, just been kicked off
19:33:51 #corewars:  * CoreChild waves
19:34:01 #corewars: < Roy> Bye JM, nice talking to you again!
19:34:10 #corewars: < CoreChild> And you...
19:34:12 -!- CoreChild [~d432ba35@brparcunix.cidadeinternet.com.br] has quit [WebChat -> www.vIRCio.org ]
19:34:19 #corewars: < Roy> Mizcu: Why would a oneshot+clp work better do you think?
19:34:59 #corewars: < Mizcu> i thought about oneshot+clp, nothing alse at the moment
19:35:15 #corewars: < Mizcu> i will not start to think about which would be better
19:35:29 #corewars: < Mizcu> last time we started that kind of debate..
19:41:49 #corewars: < Roy> Heh, but I'm just curious what a CLP would improve in a oneshot
19:43:43 #corewars: < Mizcu> oneshots worst enemy is another oneshot.
19:44:01 #corewars: < Roy> Thats true though, and that would score a bit better
19:47:50 #corewars: < Mizcu> but would it be worth to include instructions for another dodge or is a single jump enough?
19:48:34 #corewars: < Roy> I'm testing an idea right now (add/seq/nop/jmz) (yes look stupid)
19:49:34 #corewars: < Mizcu> why the nop?
19:49:52 #corewars: < Roy> The nop is for checking if its the fence of the seq
19:50:40 #corewars: < Mizcu> you can use add/seq/jmn -loop if you use special fences
19:51:56 #corewars: < Mizcu> hmm.. nah..
19:58:27 #corewars: < Roy> Heh, my oneclpshot loses against a dclear...it starts clearing when it finds the dclears clear and then (I'm also forward) it finds me first :)
19:59:37 #corewars: < brx> omg whats the email address for sal
20:00:27 #corewars: < Mizcu> see the help there
20:00:32 #corewars: < brx> i have
20:00:34 #corewars: < brx> no email address.
20:00:38 #corewars: < Mizcu> its 10cm from the top
20:00:42 #corewars: < Mizcu> very well hidden
20:00:58 #corewars: < brx> oh,
20:01:03 #corewars: < brx> yes you are right
20:03:17 #corewars: < phunk> /quit
20:03:19 #corewars: < phunk> Err
20:03:23 #corewars: < phunk> Weird.
20:03:25 -!- phunk [~daquik@s28.dial1.sne.nac.net] has quit []
20:09:03 #corewars: < Mizcu> (huh? sugartooth wins 75% against yuckyuck?)
20:09:08 #corewars: < brx> ^^
20:09:12 #corewars: < Roy> Huh?
20:10:43 #corewars: < Mizcu> Sugartooth is a vampire with rubber tooth, cannot beat anything. See sal-b
20:12:11 #corewars: < Roy> Heh, it beats yuck yuck :)
20:13:01 #corewars: < Mizcu> you could think "scary" when a djn-train gets 230 points from sugar
20:13:32 #corewars: < brx> it's yuck yuck after all ^^
20:13:54 #corewars: < Roy> djn-trains are evil....beat a lot of scanners, even modern ones!
20:14:18 #corewars: < Mizcu> Roy: see how djn-train scores against scizzory
20:14:20 #corewars: < brx> guys.. do you throw all your crap warriors on beginners ^^
20:15:00 #corewars: < Mizcu> brx: it needed some filling
20:15:32 #corewars:  * brx grins
20:15:33 #corewars: < Mizcu> brx: and beating other warriors is motivational
20:16:04 #corewars: < brx> well but after some benchmarking with wilkies and co i can figure how the warriors on beginners hill must look like ^^
20:18:39 #corewars: < Mizcu> send a test to sourceforge-beginner, it is older b-hill, and allows test-fights
20:19:15 #corewars: < brx> Mizcu: hm what for though?
20:19:36 #corewars: < Mizcu> ..if you want
20:19:56 #corewars: < brx> not with yuckyuck
20:20:11 #corewars: < brx> next warrior will beat sal beginners.
20:20:19 #corewars: < grabek> damn
20:20:21 #corewars: < grabek> my page is out
20:20:23 #corewars: < brx> hello grabek 
20:20:24 #corewars: < grabek> damn isp
20:20:25 #corewars: < brx> yes i noticed..
20:20:26 #corewars: < grabek> hi brx 
20:20:58 #corewars: < Roy> Hi lukasz
20:21:00 #corewars: < grabek> dammit
20:21:01 #corewars: < grabek> hi roy
20:21:10 #corewars:  * grabek will be eating lunch in a minute
20:21:28 #corewars: < brx> lunch?
20:21:33 #corewars: < brx> oh well me too.
20:21:34 #corewars:  * grabek wonders whether the fact the page is out is somehow implied by the new domain i bought
20:21:39 #corewars: < grabek> yeah, i am back from work
20:23:22 #corewars: < grabek> i bought a domain name
20:23:24 #corewars: < Mizcu> the best warriors at sal are oneshot, stone/oneshot, paper, paper, oneshot, paper, stone/scan(os?) , no pure stone/imp. Good luck climbing.
20:23:32 #corewars: < Mizcu> (sal-b)
20:23:55 #corewars: < Mizcu> (smaug is s/i but not on that top)
20:47:54 #corewars: < grabek> oh this is because of the domain i bought
20:47:59 #corewars: < grabek> which is not registered yet
20:48:29 #corewars: < Roy> Too bad...that could take a couple of days
20:51:23 #corewars: < grabek> there's no rush
20:51:36 #corewars: < grabek> i am to change the page to kind of blog, i think
20:51:48 #corewars: < grabek> with a commenting system and partial information 'bout me
20:54:30 #corewars: < Roy> Ah, ok, I'll check the result :)
20:58:18 -!- AtnNn [~AtnNn@dsl-132-153.aei.ca] has joined #corewars
21:00:00 #corewars: < grabek> hm
21:01:19 #corewars: < Roy> What..?
21:02:21 #corewars: < Mizcu> Atnnn, long time no see
21:02:33 #corewars: < grabek> no, nothing
21:12:47 -!- Mr_Alert [1001@cpe-66-27-200-2.socal.rr.com] has joined #corewars
21:13:52 #corewars: < grabek> hm
21:13:58 #corewars: < grabek> so many new people here...
21:14:01 #corewars: < Roy> still nothing?
21:14:02 #corewars: < Roy> :)
21:14:08 #corewars: < Mizcu> rr.com .. there's a host i dont remember from before
21:14:14 #corewars: < brx> btw grabek 
21:14:22 #corewars: < brx> ah nothing.
21:15:37 #corewars: < Mizcu> but this must be kind of record, 4 persons i consider new to here
21:16:17 #corewars: < grabek> Mr_Alert: you are?
21:16:24 #corewars: < brx> i guess that's my undoing.
21:16:36 #corewars: < brx> people are attracted to my presence :)
21:16:46 #corewars: < grabek> good
21:16:51 #corewars: < Mr_Alert> A new person.
21:16:54 #corewars: < grabek> don't get disonnected then
21:17:00 #corewars: < grabek> Mr_Alert: that i know
21:17:43 #corewars: < grabek> anything else?
21:18:02 #corewars: < Mr_Alert> Well, what do you want to know?
21:18:37 #corewars: < Mr_Alert> My real name, my acquaintences (sp?), what?
21:19:20 #corewars: < brx> like, your connection to corewars? 
21:19:22 #corewars: < grabek> nooo
21:19:29 #corewars: < grabek> yeah, you were first, brx 
21:19:32 #corewars: < Mr_Alert> phunk introduced me to corewars.
21:19:39 #corewars: < grabek> oh
21:19:41 #corewars: < grabek> good
21:19:43 #corewars: < grabek> :-)
21:20:06 #corewars:  * brx grins
21:20:21 #corewars: < grabek> ok, i got a reply from my admin\
21:20:28 #corewars: < grabek> s/\/$//
21:20:37 #corewars: < grabek> it is the domain problem
21:20:52 #corewars: < grabek> i have some time for designing then
21:20:54 #corewars: < grabek> great
21:21:45 #corewars: < grabek> good to see so many newbies around
21:21:56 #corewars: < grabek> two questions
21:22:30 #corewars: < grabek> [1]. does any know a good bloggin php script that is both lightweighted and does not require mysql?
21:22:50 #corewars: < Roy> Write one... :)
21:23:10 #corewars: < grabek> [2]. what options should i enable in configure file of apache http server to make it rewrite addresses properly...
21:23:19 #corewars: < brx> rewrite?
21:24:37 #corewars: < grabek> rewrite
21:24:42 #corewars: < grabek> dot
21:27:34 #corewars: < grabek> dammit
21:39:06 #corewars: < grabek> ok, i am tired
21:39:16 #corewars: < grabek> this drives me to the edge of madness
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22:39:28 #corewars: < Roy> Hi again...
22:39:35 #corewars: < Roy> No jakub...? too bad!
22:41:03 #corewars: < Roy> Then I'm off again...! bye!
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22:41:34 #corewars: < grabek> phew
22:41:43 #corewars: < grabek> i set the httpd up!
22:41:46 #corewars: < grabek> thumbs up
22:41:54 #corewars: < grabek> now, for the rewrite module
22:46:59 #corewars: < brx> ^^
22:47:08 #corewars:  * brx is writing a benchmarking program in perl
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23:07:46 #corewars: < grabek> http://boastology.com
23:19:15 #corewars:  * grabek wonders whether it wouldn't be better to write a blogging system for himself
23:19:34 #corewars: < brx> write one for yourself ^^
23:22:02 #corewars: < grabek> yeah
23:22:09 #corewars: < grabek> i thought you'd say this
23:23:34 #corewars: < brx> how so
23:24:03 #corewars: < grabek> it ain't so bad, otoh
23:24:15 #corewars: < grabek> all i need is tuning this a bit
23:24:20 #corewars: < grabek> adding archive option
23:24:27 #corewars: < grabek> it won't be that bad
23:26:38 #corewars: < grabek> as i thought; it just needs tweaking
23:26:52 #corewars: < grabek> yuck, i hate reading others' sources
23:27:00 #corewars: < brx> ditto
23:28:10 #corewars: < grabek> what makes me worry is the lack of licence statement
23:29:00 #corewars: < grabek> hm, this blogging system is 4 months (sic!) old
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23:37:17 #corewars: < grabek> tables in html make me shiver
23:38:33 #corewars: < brx> why
23:41:44 #corewars:  * grabek votes for table-less design
23:41:47 #corewars: < grabek> another one
23:41:53 #corewars: < grabek> http://www.moveabletype.org
23:41:57 #corewars: < grabek> this one looks better
--- Log closed Tue Feb 17 00:00:23 2004