--- Log opened Sun Feb 15 00:00:54 2004
00:01:15 #corewars: < phunk> Yeah.
00:01:34 #corewars: < phunk> I found the old, old version of Corewar. I didn't think there was a newer one, let alone people that still played it.
00:01:50 #corewars: < grabek> both is true, actually
00:02:01 #corewars: < phunk> Apparently, heh
00:02:02 #corewars: < grabek> there's sdl port of pmars
00:02:10 #corewars: < grabek> and native windows version
00:02:12 #corewars: < grabek> called corewin
00:02:16 #corewars: < grabek> by chip wendell
00:02:26 #corewars: < phunk> I need corewin, then.
00:02:29 #corewars: < grabek> hm
00:02:34 #corewars: < grabek> i don't remember the link
00:02:39 #corewars: < grabek> you may find the url
00:02:51 #corewars: < grabek> on http://corewar.ehost.pl/links/
00:03:02 #corewars: < grabek> in software section
00:03:08 #corewars: < phunk> Thanks
00:03:18 #corewars: < grabek> dammit
00:03:24 #corewars: < grabek> on http://corewar.ehost.pl/community/links/
00:04:05 #corewars: < phunk> Alright
00:04:10 #corewars: < phunk> Got it
00:08:28 #corewars: < grabek> where're you from?
00:08:45 #corewars: < phunk> USA
00:10:01 #corewars: < grabek> oh
00:10:23 #corewars: < grabek> then, during your dinner time there'll be a irc meeting tomorrow
00:10:27 #corewars: < grabek> (most propably)
00:10:58 #corewars: < grabek> s/propably/probably/
00:11:44 #corewars:  * grabek wonders about his language skills or rather lack of them
00:13:37 #corewars: < phunk> Hehe
00:13:41 #corewars: < phunk> I'll try to attend
00:13:47 #corewars: < phunk> I'm still new to it.
00:15:08 #corewars: < grabek> don't be discouraged
00:15:20 #corewars: < phunk> Discouraged by what?
00:15:22 #corewars: < grabek> redcode is easy to learn, hard to master
00:15:27 #corewars: < grabek> poh
00:15:32 #corewars: < grabek> s/poh/oh/
00:15:34 #corewars: < phunk> It's almost exactly like ASM
00:15:39 #corewars: < grabek> you mean English or redcode?
00:15:40 #corewars: < phunk> Can't be too hard.
00:15:49 #corewars: < phunk> Redcode.
00:16:02 #corewars: < grabek> it is hard, believe me.
00:16:14 #corewars: < grabek> you will see, anyway
00:16:24 #corewars: < grabek> there's bunch of intro sites
00:16:29 #corewars: < grabek> (links on my page)
00:16:32 #corewars: < grabek> and a newsgroup
00:16:41 #corewars: < grabek> rec.games.corewar
00:17:08 #corewars: < grabek> low volume but with constant attendants and lurkers
00:30:01 #corewars: < grabek> phunk
00:32:20 #corewars: < phunk> Yes?
00:32:24 #corewars: < grabek> a question
00:32:33 #corewars: < grabek> i am not that good at English
00:32:50 #corewars: < grabek> i'd like to register a domain, so actually this does matter
00:33:01 #corewars: < grabek> which one is correct
00:33:10 #corewars: < grabek> dwarf's corner or dwarf corner
00:33:31 #corewars: < phunk> dwarf-corner would be right.
00:33:40 #corewars: < phunk> you can't use apostrophes or spaces in a domain.
00:34:17 #corewars: < grabek> i know
00:34:35 #corewars: < grabek> so, basically, the tittle of my page is not incorrect?
00:34:38 #corewars: < phunk> but dwarf's corner is grammatically correct
00:35:06 #corewars: < phunk> what's your native language?
00:35:41 #corewars: < grabek> Polish
00:36:43 #corewars: < grabek> why?
00:38:20 #corewars: < phunk> Just curious
00:42:53 #corewars: < grabek> btw: you know you can compete on hills?
00:43:13 #corewars: < phunk> Yeah
00:43:22 #corewars: < phunk> I know that I can, I just don't know how
00:43:52 #corewars: < grabek> oh
00:43:57 #corewars: < grabek> you make a warrior
00:44:12 #corewars: < grabek> you add a proper header that hill server can parse
00:44:23 #corewars: < grabek> usually this is something like
00:44:30 #corewars: < phunk> Like ;author and ;name and stuff
00:44:30 #corewars: < grabek> ;redcode-94nop
00:44:34 #corewars: < grabek> ;author phunk
00:44:38 #corewars: < grabek> ;name My warrior
00:44:41 #corewars: < grabek> ;assert 1
00:44:48 #corewars: < phunk> What's the ;assert for?
00:44:52 #corewars: < grabek> you redcode code goes here
00:45:13 #corewars: < grabek> ;assert defines the compilation constraints and conditions
00:45:17 #corewars: < grabek> for example
00:45:38 #corewars: < grabek> a warrior that works on core of 8000 cells (which implies it won't work properly on any other core)
00:45:46 #corewars: < grabek> should have a line
00:45:51 #corewars: < grabek> ;assert CORESIZE==8000
00:46:00 #corewars: < grabek> added somewhere in a header
00:46:06 #corewars: < phunk> What's the proper core size to use?
00:46:21 #corewars: < grabek> the size that is implemented in the hill
00:46:24 #corewars: < grabek> most common are
00:46:42 #corewars: < grabek> 8000 cells, 800 cells and the big hill with 54400 (or something) cells
00:46:48 #corewars: < grabek> http://www.koth.org
00:46:52 #corewars: < phunk> I see
00:46:55 #corewars: < grabek> http://sal.math.ualberta.ca
00:47:29 #corewars: < phunk> Forgive me for asking a newbie question, but are warriors I make in CoreWin still compatible in the competitions?
00:47:48 #corewars: < grabek> it depends on what you program/implement into them
00:48:00 #corewars: < grabek> corewin has an internal editor
00:48:08 #corewars: < grabek> and it helps designing warriors
00:48:19 #corewars: < grabek> (i.e. you don't have to use notepad)
00:48:32 #corewars: < grabek> it does not matter what you use for programming your code
00:48:38 #corewars: < grabek> s/code/warrior/
00:48:58 #corewars: < phunk> No, I was just wondering if Corewin used different commands
00:49:06 #corewars: < phunk> I know that the actual editor doesn't affect anything
00:49:32 #corewars: < grabek> no
00:49:43 #corewars: < grabek> corewin has a compliant redcode interpreter implemented
00:49:53 #corewars: < phunk> Alright then
00:50:01 #corewars: < grabek> and warriors you program using corewin can compete on hills from koth.org and koth@sal
00:51:01 #corewars: < phunk> Right now I'm reading the beginner's guide to redcode
00:51:21 #corewars: < grabek> good place to start from
00:51:36 #corewars: < grabek> also, you should read first 10-20 issues of corewarrior
00:52:49 #corewars: < grabek> corewar veteren revealed arcana's of few basic strategies of corewar
00:53:47 #corewars: < grabek> s/veteren/veterans/
00:54:44 #corewars: < grabek> oh, and there's beginner's hill and koth@sal (forgot to mention!)
00:54:57 #corewars: < phunk> Hehe
00:55:05 #corewars: < grabek> dammit
00:55:08 #corewars: < grabek> s/and/at/
00:55:13 #corewars: < grabek> i am tired, i think
00:56:59 #corewars: < phunk> Heh
00:57:07 #corewars: < phunk> I'm just trying to figure this stuff out.
00:57:54 #corewars: < grabek> in a nutshell
00:58:03 #corewars: < grabek> (still about hills)
00:58:08 #corewars: < grabek> once you create a warrior,
00:58:20 #corewars: < grabek> you submit it to a hill by sending a text message
00:58:38 #corewars: < grabek> the server-side scripts put your warrior in a queue
00:59:14 #corewars: < grabek> and after few minutes your program challenges the hill fighting against every program clings to it (the hill)
00:59:35 #corewars: < grabek> if you perform better than the last one - you enter the hill
00:59:40 #corewars: < grabek> if not - you're pushed off
00:59:53 #corewars: < phunk> I see
01:00:01 #corewars: < phunk> Can I ask you a quick question about MOV?
01:00:05 #corewars: < grabek> sure
01:00:14 #corewars: < phunk> MOV one, two
01:00:20 #corewars: < phunk> What is the second number for?
01:00:28 #corewars: < grabek> MOV from, to
01:00:31 #corewars: < grabek> like in assembly
01:00:47 #corewars: < grabek> (but the other way around, iirc it was mov ah, 4ch)
01:01:05 #corewars: < grabek> mov does not move, actually, but copies an instruction
01:01:18 #corewars: < grabek> from the address that is given in 'one'
01:01:22 #corewars: < grabek> (which is called A-field)
01:01:41 #corewars: < grabek> to the address labeled 'two'
01:01:44 #corewars: < grabek> (which is called B-field)
01:02:27 #corewars: < phunk> Oh, alright
01:02:46 #corewars: < phunk> So MOV 0, 1 would pretty much execute the same MOV command forever?
01:02:53 #corewars: < grabek> yeah
01:02:56 #corewars: < grabek> exactly
01:03:17 #corewars: < grabek> mov 0,1 copies itself to the next cell
01:03:24 #corewars: < grabek> which is to be executed next
01:03:31 #corewars: < grabek> repeating the loop infinitely
01:04:16 #corewars: < phunk> And say I had an ADD command under the MOV.
01:04:28 #corewars: < phunk> Would I use MOV 0, 2 to copy it?
01:04:31 #corewars:  * grabek stills tries to figure out the Dwarf and Dwarf's subtelty
01:04:38 #corewars: < grabek> nope
01:04:48 #corewars: < grabek> the 0 in MOV points to the MOV itself
01:05:06 #corewars: < grabek> remember, it is relative addressing
01:05:12 #corewars: < grabek> 0 points to the cell
01:05:17 #corewars: < grabek> 1 points to the next one
01:05:25 #corewars: < phunk> Oh
01:05:39 #corewars: < grabek> it is like in mov 0,1
01:05:56 #corewars: < grabek> in English (or in its approximation) it'd be
01:06:13 #corewars: < grabek> "take a cell that is being currently executed"
01:06:27 #corewars: < grabek> "copy it one cell away from the current address"
01:06:38 #corewars: < grabek> compare
01:06:39 #corewars: < grabek> mov 1,1
01:06:41 #corewars: < grabek> oh
01:06:42 #corewars: < grabek> no
01:06:44 #corewars: < grabek> mov 1,2
01:06:56 #corewars: < grabek> would copy the line that's below MOV line
01:07:12 #corewars: < grabek> two cells from the current line
01:07:32 #corewars: < phunk> I see
01:07:48 #corewars: < phunk> Could you use negative numbers to copy from lines above the MOV line?
01:07:53 #corewars: < grabek> yes
01:07:56 #corewars: < grabek> mov -1, 0
01:08:03 #corewars: < phunk> Alright
01:08:19 #corewars: < grabek> all numbers are taken modulo CORESIZE
01:08:25 #corewars: < grabek> so for CORESIZE of 8000
01:08:28 #corewars: < grabek> -1 = 7999
01:08:35 #corewars: < grabek> btw, phunk, how old are you?
01:08:40 #corewars: < grabek> (mind if i ask?)
01:09:17 #corewars: < phunk> 15.
01:10:03 #corewars: < grabek> ok, phunk, it is time i went, i think (it is 1.15 am here)
01:10:14 #corewars: < phunk> Ok
01:10:15 #corewars: < grabek> feel free to post your questions to the ng
01:10:15 #corewars: < phunk> See you later
01:10:19 #corewars: < grabek> newsgroup, i mean
01:10:21 #corewars: < phunk> Alright
01:10:24 #corewars: < grabek> or mail me, if you wish
01:10:30 #corewars: < grabek> grabek (at) acn.waw.pl
01:10:35 #corewars: < phunk> Alright
01:10:57 #corewars: < grabek> (btw, does dwarfs-corner.com looks alright?)
01:11:16 #corewars: < grabek> (the domain, not the page, i mean, for there's nothing behind that url)
01:11:22 #corewars: < grabek> s/looks/look/
01:11:27 #corewars: < phunk> Yeah
01:11:29 #corewars: < phunk> It looks fine
01:11:32 #corewars: < grabek> good
01:11:46 #corewars: < grabek> i'll take it, then :-)
01:11:49 #corewars: < phunk> Hehe
01:11:54 #corewars: < phunk> Sooner or later I'll get it
01:12:01 #corewars: < phunk> (Redcode, I mean)
01:12:21 #corewars: < grabek> oh, it is not that hard
01:12:31 #corewars: < phunk> Yeah, once you get it you get it
01:12:33 #corewars: < grabek> read faq and ilmari's tutorial
01:12:47 #corewars: < phunk> I know C, PHP, QBasic, and a bunch of other stuff
01:12:53 #corewars: < grabek> try the http://www.corewar.info
01:12:55 #corewars: < phunk> It's really only a matter of time
01:13:00 #corewars: < grabek> lol
01:13:06 #corewars: < grabek> you bet it is
01:13:24 #corewars: < grabek> there're references and tutorials as well
01:13:52 #corewars: < grabek> my site is not for newbies, i've got rid of all tutorials and introductions
01:14:03 #corewars: < grabek> but corewar.info is a good start
01:14:32 #corewars: < grabek> g'night
01:14:35 #corewars: < grabek> see you later
01:14:38 #corewars:  * grabek is off
01:15:15 #corewars: < phunk> Later
01:36:59 -!- phunk [~daquik@s26.dial3.sne.nac.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
01:44:52 -!- phunk [~daquik@s68.dial3.sne.nac.net] has joined #corewars
02:05:43 -!- brx [~brx@pD9EAB9C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #corewars
03:56:14 -!- phunk [~daquik@s68.dial3.sne.nac.net] has quit []
05:21:29 -!- phunk [~daquik@s82.dial1.sne.nac.net] has joined #corewars
11:20:11 -!- zadijan [~daquik@s111.dial1.sne.nac.net] has joined #corewars
11:22:08 -!- phunk [~daquik@s82.dial1.sne.nac.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
11:32:13 -!- zadijan is now known as phunk
11:55:23 #corewars: < grabek> erm?
11:55:35 #corewars: < grabek> so many phunks here...
11:56:55 #corewars: < phunk> Hello, grabek.
11:57:02 #corewars: < phunk> I'm still the same phunk.
11:58:47 #corewars: < grabek> oh
11:59:08 #corewars: < grabek> you don't sleep very long, do you?
11:59:24 #corewars: < phunk> I never went to sleep.
11:59:30 #corewars: < phunk> I don't sleep very often.
12:00:00 #corewars: < grabek> huh
12:00:05 #corewars: < grabek> tough guy
12:00:08 #corewars: < grabek> anything new?
12:00:15 #corewars: < phunk> Not really
12:00:35 #corewars: < phunk> But I did find the old 1990 version of Corewar on my computer from a while back. =/
12:00:40 #corewars: < grabek> :-)
12:00:44 #corewars: < phunk> I forgot I had it.
12:00:57 #corewars: < grabek> it supports 88 standard, i think
12:01:10 #corewars: < grabek> which (the standard) is still used
12:01:34 #corewars: < phunk> 'Warriors' are called 'Organisms', and rather than *.RED it uses *.PRG.
12:01:42 #corewars: < phunk> It's pretty fun to play with, though.
12:02:20 #corewars: < grabek> never heard of it
12:02:26 #corewars: < grabek> never mind
12:24:37 -!- joonas [jpihlaja@kruuna.helsinki.fi] has joined #corewars
13:23:35 #corewars: < phunk> Later
13:23:37 -!- phunk [~daquik@s111.dial1.sne.nac.net] has quit []
13:24:02 #corewars: < grabek> hi joonas 
13:26:23 #corewars: < joonas> hi
13:26:46 #corewars:  * grabek is uploading behemot's chapter atm
13:27:09 #corewars: < joonas> cool.
13:27:17 #corewars: < joonas> what's the url?
13:27:30 #corewars: < grabek> done
13:27:31 #corewars: < grabek> hm
13:27:44 #corewars: < grabek> http://www.corewar.ehost.pl/book/behemot/
13:27:57 #corewars: < grabek> http://www.corewar.ehost.pl/book/behemot/index_2.html as well
13:29:11 #corewars: < joonas> the page layout is really nice.
13:29:21 #corewars: < grabek> thanks
13:30:02 #corewars: < joonas> I notice the block comments quoting the frenzy usenet article don't render properly for me though: only the first line is in italics.
13:30:21 #corewars: < grabek> hm
13:30:25 #corewars: < grabek> yes, you're right
13:30:38 #corewars: < grabek> <p> spoils it
13:31:20 #corewars: < joonas> very clear explanation of an airbag. 
13:31:45 #corewars: < joonas> maybe you could add a process scheduling diagram though to the section on parallel processes?
13:32:06 #corewars: < joonas> ah, and there it is. :)
13:32:19 #corewars:  * joonas is too impatient
13:34:04 #corewars: < joonas> hm.. at the bottom of that article you talk about the mov.i {0, #0 instruction.
13:34:21 #corewars: < joonas> but I think the description of what happens is wrong.
13:34:33 #corewars: < grabek> which part?
13:35:18 #corewars: < grabek> why?
13:35:35 #corewars: < joonas> last three paragraphs: mov.i {0, #0 doesn't change into mov.i {0, #1, but instead it wipes itself with the previous dat 0,0.
13:36:05 #corewars: < joonas> no, wait, that happens later once all processes have been booted.
13:36:06 #corewars: < joonas> nevermind.
13:36:21 #corewars: < grabek> it is the booting
13:36:38 #corewars: < grabek> not the setting up the process queue after the boot
13:36:38 #corewars: < grabek> :-)
13:36:42 #corewars: < joonas> except, maybe, the very last code segment should have the B-field of the mov.i {0, #0 be non-zero.
13:37:35 #corewars: < joonas> yes, I meant by booting processes that the process queue is being set up.
13:38:14 #corewars: < grabek> yeah
13:38:18 #corewars: < grabek> that is right
13:38:25 #corewars: < grabek> thanks
13:38:34 #corewars: < joonas> ah, cool... you explain it on the next page.
13:39:01 #corewars: < joonas> (the bit about the first mov.i hiding itself.)
13:40:14 #corewars: < joonas> hm.. in the bit about incendiary bombs, maybe you should mention that the mov.i part of the bomb need to be executed by multiple processes.
13:40:42 #corewars: < joonas> ...because you say that it will create an spl carpet.
13:40:42 #corewars:  * grabek notes it down
13:40:55 #corewars:  * grabek slaps forehead
13:40:57 #corewars: < grabek> you're right
13:41:49 #corewars: < joonas> michal really is ingenius
13:42:13 #corewars: < grabek> yeah
13:42:24 #corewars: < grabek> it works really nice
13:42:57 #corewars: < grabek> and, actually, i get to know all that while dissecting the code
13:43:31 #corewars: < joonas> another one of his warriors I really like is his entry to the KOFACOTO white warrior round.
13:44:19 #corewars: < joonas> we had to kill RotJ in that round and he did it by booting a spiral spl/dat clear in just the right place. :)
13:44:26 #corewars: < grabek> hm
13:44:33 #corewars:  * grabek is browsing koth.org
13:45:34 #corewars: < joonas> one thing you might want to mention is that airbag's protection effectiveness goes up as the length of the warrior does.
13:45:47 #corewars: < grabek> aw yes, the actual tip of yours
13:45:51 #corewars: < grabek> forgot to add this
13:45:52 #corewars: < joonas> which is why it works so incredibly well in behemot.
13:46:00 #corewars: < joonas> yes, I learnt that from behemot. :)
13:46:00 #corewars:  * grabek notes it down
13:46:25 #corewars: < grabek> also, what Metcalf pointed me out,
13:46:29 #corewars: < joonas> a typo, I think: analise -> analyse.
13:46:34 #corewars: < joonas> or analyze if you're merkin.
13:46:43 -!- Roy [~roy_van_r@kf-mss-cb01-00228.dial.kabelfoon.nl] has joined #corewars
13:46:45 #corewars: < grabek> modifier and check have to be next to each other
13:46:54 #corewars: < Roy> good afternoon gentleman
13:46:57 #corewars: < grabek> thanks, Joonas, once again
13:46:58 #corewars: < grabek> hi
13:47:01 #corewars: < joonas> hi roy
13:47:39 #corewars: < joonas> grabek: what do you mean by modifier & check?
13:48:00 #corewars: < grabek> mov >xxx, somewhere
13:48:09 #corewars: < grabek> jmz.a yyy, <xxx-1
13:48:13 #corewars: < joonas> ah, I see.
13:48:23 #corewars: < joonas> why?
13:48:42 #corewars: < grabek> if there were a gap
13:48:44 #corewars: < grabek> something like
13:48:47 #corewars: < grabek> mov > , ...
13:48:53 #corewars: < grabek> nop
13:48:54 #corewars: < joonas> ah... a sneaky bomb could pass by us.
13:48:55 #corewars: < grabek> jmz. <
13:48:58 #corewars: < grabek> yeah, exactly
13:49:08 #corewars: < grabek> s/were/was/
13:49:18 #corewars: < grabek> and the loop would be broken
13:49:34 #corewars: < joonas> hm.. does that mean that for backward flowing airbagged processes, you'd have to put the modifier at the top of the loop?
13:49:51 #corewars:  * joonas thinks about that
13:50:16 #corewars: < joonas> no.
13:50:31 #corewars: < joonas> hm
13:50:44 #corewars: < joonas> yes
13:50:46 #corewars: < joonas> hm
13:51:10 #corewars:  * grabek does not know how one can make a flow goes backward
13:51:18 #corewars:  * grabek wonders
13:51:34 #corewars: < joonas> split K*N-1 processes into the loop for K>=1.
13:51:37 #corewars: < joonas> in reverse order.
13:51:40 #corewars: < grabek> aw, i get it
13:52:15 #corewars: < grabek> which one is better?
13:52:33 #corewars: < joonas> I have a gut feeling that forward flowing ones are.
13:52:48 #corewars: < joonas> if only because you need less processes to protect the entire loop.
13:52:56 #corewars: < joonas> with N-1 processes flowing backwards you have a gap.
13:53:11 #corewars: < joonas> so you need at least 2*N-1 processes.
13:54:22 #corewars: < joonas> hm.. I obviously need to think about airbags more.
13:55:26 #corewars:  * grabek there's something more behind all that pure DAT/MOV/so on instructions
13:55:43 #corewars: < grabek> very sophisticated algorithms can be implemented into warriors
13:56:36 #corewars: < grabek> btw
13:56:46 #corewars:  * grabek thinks of buying a domain dwarfs-corner.com :-)
13:57:00 #corewars: < joonas> oh, for your behemot article: the fact that the d-clear is placed at lower addresses than the bombing body is important because oneshots/blurlikes are less likely to notice the d-clear than the big main loop.
13:57:31 #corewars: < joonas> :)
13:57:33 #corewars: < grabek> also,
13:57:38 #corewars: < grabek> when behemot is hit with spl
13:57:49 #corewars: < grabek> stunned processes are overwritten with dats
13:57:56 #corewars: < joonas> ??
13:57:56 #corewars: < grabek> which is The Good Thing :-)
13:58:01 #corewars: < grabek> hm
13:58:14 #corewars: < grabek> when spl #a, #b hits the loop
13:58:22 #corewars: < grabek> it is broken (the loop, i mean)
13:58:36 #corewars: < grabek> thus processes falls through the jmz to clear phase
13:58:39 #corewars: < joonas> ah..
13:58:41 #corewars: < joonas> yes.
13:58:47 #corewars: < joonas> I hadn't noticed that.
13:58:51 #corewars: < joonas> very cool! :)
13:59:10 #corewars: < grabek> next chapter: the end phase
13:59:28 #corewars: < grabek> the behemot's article is unfinished
13:59:30 #corewars: < joonas> good catch on the bomb detection use of jmz.a
13:59:44 #corewars: < grabek> it is damn sensitive
13:59:48 #corewars:  * Roy never made something airbagged, should look into that!
13:59:54 #corewars: < joonas> man, behemot is filled with cleverness.
14:00:07 #corewars: < Roy> Ohw, only an improved version of MyBlur
14:01:18 #corewars: < grabek> Roy: http://www.corewar.ehost.pl/book/behemot/
14:02:22 #corewars:  * Roy always thought Behemot was a very weak poor warrior....but it has some cool tricks
14:02:39 #corewars: < Roy> My papers always trashed behemot, so I never figured to make one of that kind
14:03:33 #corewars: < grabek> behemot has many defence tricks implemented
14:03:47 #corewars: < grabek> but it's still a bomber (read: stone)
14:04:00 #corewars: < Roy> Yeah, just as Hazy has some pretty cool tricks I didn't even know it had :)
14:04:40 #corewars: < Roy> I'm still troubled with one big question though, I thought about a really cool trick, but it doesn't score better :( WHY!?
14:04:57 #corewars: < grabek> a bug?
14:05:15 #corewars: < Roy> Probebly not, wait, I'll explain it
14:05:20 #corewars: < joonas> roy: if you tell us the trick, maybe we can help you. ;)
14:05:30 #corewars: < Roy> Normal CC papers use this kind of bombing:
14:05:39 #corewars: < Roy> mov.i #0,<1
14:05:45 #corewars: < Roy> djn -1,<1234
14:05:49 #corewars: < Roy> (right?)
14:06:16 #corewars: < Roy> So I figured, now you have 8x mov.i bombs, then 8x djn.b then 8x mov.i
14:06:22 #corewars: < Roy> But if you do:
14:06:30 #corewars: < Roy> mov.i #4567,<1
14:06:37 #corewars: < Roy> djn.f -1,{1234
14:07:06 #corewars: < Roy> You bomb in one place with the mov.i bombs, and in another (using you mov.i's a-field) you do the djn.f!
14:07:29 #corewars: < grabek> (Behemot scores 139)
14:07:31 #corewars: < Roy> So you have a better spread, and more decoys for scanners instead of one big line
14:07:50 #corewars:  * grabek lunchtime
14:08:07 #corewars: < joonas> roy: yes, that seems plausible
14:08:12 #corewars: < joonas> a good idea.
14:08:25 #corewars: < Roy> But it scores much worse for some reason...
14:08:49 #corewars: < Roy> Even after intensive optimization
14:08:53 #corewars: < joonas> hm.
14:09:17 #corewars: < joonas> it might be that the paper itself depends on being decremented, broken, and falling through into the movs?
14:09:27 #corewars: < joonas> or something.
14:09:44 #corewars: < Roy> well yes, maybe..
14:09:47 #corewars: < joonas> nah.. doesn't make sense.
14:10:04 #corewars: < Roy> But it just doesn't work, I don't know why :)
14:10:09 #corewars: < joonas> you should be able to break the paper just as well by optimising the mov's a field.
14:10:31 #corewars: < joonas> very odd.
14:10:45 #corewars: < joonas> what's your benchmark?
14:10:53 #corewars: < Roy> Uhm...lets see
14:14:21 #corewars: < Roy> Behemot,Blade,Candy,Disincentive,FastActionIV,Firestorm,HazyLazy,HerbalAvanger,HeScans,HarmonySnoot, Jinx2, Next,Olivia, Pixie, Purifier, Quicksilver, Recon2,ReturnofthePendragon,Return of Vanquiser,the Stormkeeper,Solo3, Son of Vain,Stylized Euforia,Thunderstrike,Unheard-of,Uninvited, Wallpaper,Willow,Win
14:15:01 #corewars: < Roy> 31 warriors, I think its balanced evenly
14:15:40 #corewars: < joonas> so what does it score worse against?
14:15:58 #corewars: < joonas> surely not all of them?
14:16:02 #corewars: < Roy> I don't know, I don't have the results anymore :(
14:16:08 #corewars: < Roy> I'll do it again :)
14:16:36 #corewars: < joonas> you probably don't need the pure bombers in your benchmark for papers.
14:17:01 #corewars: < Roy> Its my big-all-in-one benchmark, just something you could find on the hill
14:17:18 #corewars: < Roy> I use it for optimizing everything, because I want my warriors to be strong against all kinds :P
14:17:27 #corewars: < joonas> well from your results on the hill, I'd say it was a good benchmark!
14:18:03 #corewars: < Roy> Ironic and Devil top the list of the bench indeed, Ironic scores best
14:18:30 #corewars: < joonas> yes II seems to be weak against some kinds of opponents.
14:18:38 #corewars: < joonas> maybe you shold include Devil in it too.
14:18:41 #corewars: < joonas> should
14:18:44 #corewars: < joonas> not shold
14:18:54 #corewars: < Roy> Oneshots....notice I don't have those in my bench :(
14:19:13 #corewars: < Roy> Ironic is very weak/easily optimized against
14:19:59 #corewars: < joonas> yup... no oneshots.  try some bishot variants and a goonie.
14:20:16 #corewars: < Roy> Crazyshot2
14:20:34 #corewars: < joonas> don't think I've seen that one.  is it a bishot?
14:21:20 #corewars: < joonas> yes, guess so.    then there was a particularly nasty one by Metcalf...
14:21:46 #corewars: < joonas> ah, the one that does a really fast scan and then falls into one-shot mode.
14:22:01 #corewars: < Roy> uuhhmmm...
14:22:02 #corewars: < Roy> ah
14:22:27 #corewars: < joonas> a bit like Zooom, only it was a one-shot.  and it didn't use a trick in the oneshot loop.
14:22:39 #corewars: < joonas> the fast scan up front was a separate scan phase.
14:22:52 #corewars: < Roy> pre75-z47a?
14:22:59 #corewars: < joonas> so not so zoomish after all.
14:22:59 #corewars: < joonas> yes!
14:23:12 #corewars: < Roy> Zooom is cool!
14:23:44 #corewars: < Roy> I made Herbal Avanger with the Zooom trick...scores really bad (buggy I guess)
14:23:49 #corewars:  * grabek wonders whether joonas couldn't write an article for CW next issue about benchmarking
14:24:19 #corewars:  * joonas should quietly slip out before anyone notices
14:24:30 #corewars: < joonas> good lunch?
14:25:19 #corewars: < grabek> salmon
14:25:37 #corewars: < grabek> thanks
14:25:41 #corewars: < grabek> joonas: you're a real pro in redcoding
14:25:48 #corewars: < grabek> even though you do not program any more
14:25:56 #corewars: < grabek> but your observations are just valuable
14:26:34 #corewars: < joonas> thank you.
14:26:53 #corewars: < grabek> (take hint list for example - those were tiny and little but - as we say in Poland - devil is hidden in details)
14:27:13 #corewars: < grabek> (which means: details are most important)
14:30:09 #corewars: < Roy> Those hints where cool :)
14:30:23 #corewars: < Roy> Make some new ones, and publish those too
14:30:24 #corewars: < joonas> well benchmarking is such a huge topic that I'd rather not get into it.
14:30:59 #corewars: < joonas> you should ask Steve Gunnell.  He does some w1ck3d Sh1T when it comes to evaluating warriors.
14:31:07 #corewars: < grabek> lol
14:31:13 #corewars: < grabek> might be a good idea, why not
14:31:58 #corewars: < joonas> also, bvowk might have some useful insights on how to automatically create a benchmark.
14:32:45 #corewars: < grabek> yes, i think those evolver guys know a bit about it
14:32:48 #corewars: < grabek> still
14:32:54 #corewars: < grabek> Where is CoreChild?
14:33:10 #corewars: < joonas> are you expecting him?
14:33:10 #corewars: < Roy> Will has a nice theory about subconcius redcode interpetation as well :)
14:33:57 #corewars: < grabek> no, i am not
14:34:04 #corewars: < grabek> but i heven't seem for ages
14:34:10 #corewars: < joonas> he was here only last week.
14:34:15 #corewars: < grabek> oh
14:34:16 #corewars: < joonas> quite a lot, I thought.
14:34:21 #corewars:  * grabek has to browse the logs
14:34:38 #corewars:  * grabek slaps forehead
14:34:51 #corewars: < grabek> no longer than week-10 days ago i was smsing with John
14:36:22 #corewars: < grabek> joonas: any ideas for other stones i may describe?
14:36:28 #corewars: < grabek> Roy: ?
14:36:43 #corewars: < Roy> The tiny Alladin's Cave bomber? I love that three-liner
14:37:00 #corewars: < joonas> yes that's a good one.
14:37:15 #corewars: < joonas> although kline's post on it was quite exhaustive.
14:37:22 #corewars: < joonas> not a lot to describe in three lines.
14:37:25 #corewars: < grabek> yeah
14:37:39 #corewars: < grabek> i don't remember who but someone suggested
14:37:50 #corewars: < grabek> blue funk and its newer versions
14:38:03 #corewars: < grabek> (gigolo?)
14:38:07 #corewars: < joonas> are there substantially beefed up versions of bluefunk?
14:38:27 #corewars: < joonas> gigolo isn't particularly different from bluefunk.
14:38:34 #corewars: < joonas> in its stone, anyway.
14:38:41 #corewars: < grabek> is it described anywhere?
14:38:56 #corewars:  * grabek thinks that in one of cw there's a througout article about that kind of stones
14:39:03 #corewars: < joonas> gigolo was described in either i) a post to rgc or ii) a core warrior artucle.
14:39:04 #corewars: < grabek> pity
14:39:13 #corewars: < joonas> but only the basics of it.
14:39:27 #corewars: < Roy> You could analyze the stone in Ironic Imps, you made it, and I don't even know why its so effective :-P
14:39:36 #corewars: < grabek> oh?
14:39:44 #corewars: < Roy> (And it looks like it mutates itself)
14:39:54 #corewars: < grabek> i don't remember the fact :-)
14:40:04 #corewars: < Roy> Run it :)
14:40:28 #corewars: < grabek> oh it's joonas' stone with a clear
14:40:36 #corewars: < Roy> Yes, you made it clear
14:40:54 #corewars: < grabek> oh, i've got an idea
14:40:55 #corewars: < Roy> And I created some crazy stepsize and boot and clear and impz
14:41:13 #corewars: < grabek> a forward clearing stone, non-suicidal
14:41:14 #corewars: < joonas> lol
14:41:17 #corewars: < grabek> this is a tricky one
14:42:06 #corewars: < grabek> btw have you noticed that juliet storm uses the same technique as newt does?
14:42:34 #corewars:  * Roy is a stone-newb. doesn't even know what trick newt uses
14:43:00 #corewars: < grabek> it hits itself with a spl to enter a clear
14:43:05 #corewars: < grabek> juliet uses the same trick
14:43:09 #corewars: < Roy> ah ok
14:43:24 #corewars: < grabek> though there was no clear in time when js was created
14:43:30 #corewars: < joonas> yes, but doesn't juliet use an spl bomb?
14:43:31 #corewars: < grabek> s/clear/dclear/
14:43:43 #corewars: < grabek> no, it bombs with mov {0, somewhere
14:43:48 #corewars: < joonas> ah.
14:43:53 #corewars:  * grabek thinks so...
14:44:03 #corewars: < grabek> yeah
14:44:08 #corewars:  * joonas has dementia
14:44:18 #corewars:  * grabek has checked
14:45:24 #corewars: < joonas> oh: one stone which is really nice is the one in Freight Train v0.2
14:46:17 #corewars: < Roy> You could do an article about stone+imps :) I know some made those....just cut the copying part of Jedimp and add more bombing and feed multible processes....no need for seperate imps
14:46:18 #corewars: < joonas> it's almost sick how much functionality is packed into it.
14:46:34 #corewars: < grabek> cannonade?
14:46:49 #corewars: < joonas> FTv0.2 is like Canonnae^2
14:46:50 #corewars:  * grabek has to catch a close look
14:46:58 #corewars: < joonas> stick a d in there
14:47:59 #corewars: < grabek> so, as for now, you mentioned:
14:48:13 #corewars: < grabek> Kline's, Freight Train, Ironic Imps
14:48:30 #corewars: < Roy> Freight/Cannonade...both are nice
14:49:01 #corewars: < grabek> joonas: is the following statement correct?
14:49:17 #corewars: < grabek> it bombs the xxx whose A-field is checked
14:49:25 #corewars:  * grabek wonders about that 'whose'
14:50:20 #corewars: < grabek> nope
14:50:23 #corewars: < grabek> of which
14:50:48 #corewars: < joonas> xxx?
14:50:59 #corewars: < grabek> xxx is irrevelant
14:51:40 #corewars: < Roy> Thunderstrike is also nice, it looks weird, with the djn -3/mov etc
14:52:11 #corewars: < grabek> forget the thunderstrike :-)
14:52:16 #corewars: < grabek> it's full of bugs :-)
14:52:32 #corewars: < joonas> FT  bombs the djn line with a dat containing the steps for a spiral clear.  once that's done it turns into an backward add clear.
14:54:59 #corewars: < joonas> (paraphrasing from memory)
14:55:12 #corewars: < grabek> Roy: hammerhead is *much* better but armadillo outscores them both
14:55:57 #corewars: < Roy> Then write about that one :P
14:56:36 #corewars:  * grabek tries to recall what really is behind the Armadillo
14:57:02 #corewars: < Roy> Lol, Devilstick is: A paper/imp/stone/scan/clear :)
14:57:13 #corewars: < grabek> oh, it has a trickier boot
14:57:50 #corewars: < grabek> i was thinking about searchable warrior archives
14:57:56 #corewars: < joonas> roy's created the ultimate combo warrior!
14:58:01 #corewars: < grabek> similar to Planar's
14:58:04 #corewars: < grabek> lol
14:58:21 #corewars: < grabek> but i want exclude all those 'weird' ones
14:58:22 #corewars: < Roy> Yes, I was just looking in Planars archive, thats when I started to think about where Dev was going to go :)
14:58:54 #corewars: < Roy> Just make a Hybrid section ;)
14:59:28 #corewars: < grabek> John has a good one
15:00:03 #corewars: < grabek> very simple and, IMO, sufficient
15:00:10 #corewars: < Roy> That is..?
15:02:05 #corewars: < Roy> I'm thinking on making a smart warrior (yes those don't work on the hill) just to challenge my skills :)
15:02:24 #corewars: < grabek> when you dl its warrior archives and unzip them you see
15:02:35 #corewars: < Roy> Airbagged bomber that detects stone->paper or else->d-clear
15:03:44 #corewars: < Roy> hmm, maybe first an airbagger is nice to make...
15:03:58 #corewars: < Roy> Ok, going to do that then
15:04:39 #corewars: < grabek> nice idea
15:05:00 #corewars: < Roy> But now I have to figure out a nice bombing routine...something original
15:05:12 #corewars: < grabek> though i'd rather chose
15:05:18 #corewars: < grabek> if stone detected -> dclear
15:05:28 #corewars: < grabek> it paper detected -> ssdclear
15:05:39 #corewars: < Roy> hmm...
15:05:49 #corewars: < grabek> this won't be that hard
15:05:54 #corewars: < Roy> if paper->switch to spl-bombing
15:06:04 #corewars: < Roy> (instead of dat bombs)
15:06:13 #corewars: < Roy> or incr. bombing
15:06:16 #corewars: < grabek> make a clear that works either like dclear or ssdclear
15:06:25 #corewars: < grabek> there should be kind of switch
15:06:54 #corewars: < grabek> (switch should be easy to trigger, something like decrementing one field)
15:07:42 #corewars: < grabek> you get the picture?
15:08:03 #corewars: < Roy> Yes, that isn't too hard, if you clear like uhm, HSA for example
15:08:12 #corewars: < Roy> (but then a full clear)
15:08:18 #corewars: < joonas> Ah, you're talking about the Fuse technique.
15:08:31 #corewars: < Roy> Fuse? I have that code somewhere
15:08:33 #corewars: < grabek> so, it has a name, even
15:08:53 #corewars: < joonas> the smartness bit
15:09:21 #corewars: < joonas> also, look into smooth noodle map and kitchen sink ii, they do something similar.
15:10:15 #corewars: < grabek> it is so obfuscated
15:10:49 #corewars: < Roy> Then its good if someone writes about it and clears it up (Lukasz..? :))
15:10:57 #corewars: < Roy> Or Joonas? :)
15:11:03 #corewars: < joonas> or Roy!
15:11:26 #corewars: < grabek> !
15:11:32 #corewars: < grabek> second that
15:12:24 #corewars:  * Roy is bad at analysis
15:12:37 #corewars: < grabek> oh, i know how to do this
15:12:42 #corewars: < grabek> but /me won't tell
15:12:59 #corewars: < Roy> And I can't even write normal english without an average of 5 spelling errors per line
15:13:20 #corewars: < grabek> oh
15:13:32 #corewars: < grabek> i didn't mean the writing about smooth noodle
15:13:34 #corewars: < brx> hello guys.
15:13:37 #corewars: < grabek> hi brx 
15:13:44 #corewars: < grabek> i meant the 'switch' trick
15:16:40 #corewars: < joonas> hi brx
15:20:44 #corewars: < grabek> so, brx, how is your redcode?
15:22:07 #corewars: < brx> it sucks ^^
15:22:36 #corewars: < grabek> practice makes a master
15:22:48 #corewars: < brx> i know, i have written yet another paper
15:23:01 #corewars: < grabek> good
15:23:01 #corewars: < brx> this time using a different copy technique
15:23:02 #corewars: < grabek> submit it
15:23:08 #corewars: < brx> submit it?
15:23:10 #corewars: < brx> where to?
15:23:13 #corewars: < grabek> koth@koth.org
15:23:22 #corewars: < joonas> or the beginner's hill at sourceforge.
15:23:26 #corewars: < grabek> there are hills
15:23:28 #corewars: < brx> ...why? it doesn't score at all..
15:23:31 #corewars: < joonas> or at koth@corewars.info
15:23:35 #corewars: < grabek> hills are on-going tournaments
15:23:40 #corewars: < brx> i know ^^
15:23:47 #corewars: < brx> but this one will not even enter a hill
15:23:48 #corewars: < joonas> what do you mean it doesn't score at all?
15:24:35 #corewars: < brx> joonas: it's what i call a brx warrior. it ties much, loses a few times and never wins
15:25:21 #corewars: < Roy> brb, I have to get somthing to eat
15:25:45 #corewars: < joonas> brx: cool.  so you'll get at least as many points as it ties.
15:25:55 #corewars: < brx> well yes.
15:26:16 #corewars: < brx> i should have clarified: it doesn't score much.
15:27:17 #corewars: < joonas> well when you're just starting that's not a requirement for submitting a warrior to the hill. :)
15:27:27 #corewars: < brx> ^^
15:27:48 #corewars: < joonas> brx: what are the ^^ symbols?
15:28:02 #corewars: < brx> oh, sorry.. it's a japanese anime ^^
15:28:03 #corewars: < joonas> looks like you're pointing out on the previous line.
15:28:05 #corewars: < brx> uh
15:28:05 #corewars: < brx> not anime
15:28:07 #corewars: < joonas> doh..
15:28:08 #corewars: < brx> smiley
15:28:17 #corewars: < joonas> I see.
15:28:38 #corewars: < joonas> and is it a happy kind of smiley, or a surprised kind of smiley, or what?
15:28:46 #corewars: < brx> those ^^ portray the eyebrows of my smiling face
15:29:04 #corewars: < grabek> brx has pointed eyebrows
15:29:06 #corewars: < grabek> hm
15:29:07 #corewars: < grabek> :-P
15:29:11 #corewars: < brx> lol
15:29:12 #corewars: < joonas> :)
15:29:21 #corewars: < joonas> ok, thanks for clarifying that.
15:29:40 #corewars: < brx> anyway.. i think next i am going to try with a stone something
15:30:06 #corewars: < grabek> papers, imo, are much easier to make
15:30:09 #corewars: < joonas> stones are nice.  we were just reminiscing about some famous ones before you got in.
15:30:13 #corewars: < grabek> take paper01 from cw #1
15:30:29 #corewars: < brx> ah we will see
15:30:34 #corewars: < grabek> a question
15:30:36 #corewars: < brx> i have a better feeling about stones actually
15:30:49 #corewars: < grabek> why bomb dodgers are not that effective agains stone/imps?
15:31:20 #corewars: < joonas> bomb dodgers kick stone/imps.
15:31:32 #corewars: < grabek> do they?
15:31:48 #corewars: < brx> ah i have forgotten what dodgers were
15:32:22 #corewars: < joonas> dodgers are basically warriors that first find a bomb that an opponent stone has thrown and then stick a small clear on top of it.
15:32:40 #corewars: < joonas> the theory is that if a stone has bombed some location, then it's not likely to bomb near that location very soon.
15:33:00 #corewars: < brx> ah
15:33:01 #corewars: < brx> thanks
15:33:15 #corewars: < brx> well
15:33:31 #corewars: < brx> that's only for the beginning of a match though.
15:33:56 #corewars: < grabek> so dodgers make its scanning at the first phase of battle
15:34:29 #corewars: < joonas> well, not really.  once the clear is in place, it can pretty safely wipe the core until it has killed the stone.  then it's only got the imps (if any) to worry about.
15:34:48 #corewars: < brx> oh yes, i have a question
15:34:49 #corewars: < joonas> any clear worth its salt should take care of imps with little trouble.
15:35:03 #corewars: < brx> what's the best way to kill imps with a paper.
15:35:23 #corewars: < joonas> ah.. you ask the mystical question... fortunately grabek here knows the secret. :)
15:35:37 #corewars: < joonas> no?
15:35:37 #corewars: < brx> reepcheep?
15:35:42 #corewars: < brx> thingy?
15:35:42 #corewars: < grabek> lol
15:35:45 #corewars: < joonas> he does, but 's not telling.
15:35:49 #corewars: < brx> oh
15:35:49 #corewars: < grabek> with a paper?
15:35:53 #corewars: < brx> yes ^^
15:36:08 #corewars: < grabek> take a look at pulp by Oversby
15:36:15 #corewars: < brx> hm
15:36:23 #corewars: < grabek> (Disincentive being its modern version)
15:36:24 #corewars: < brx> and to put it in a more abstract way? ^^
15:36:27 #corewars: < grabek> oh
15:36:31 #corewars: < joonas> lol
15:36:32 #corewars: < grabek> an anti-imp bomb
15:36:52 #corewars: < brx> ah what's that
15:37:04 #corewars: < grabek> dat <2667, <5334
15:37:09 #corewars: < grabek> which is a fluke
15:37:30 #corewars: < joonas> ?
15:37:42 #corewars: < grabek> i mean, it's a fluke to kill an imp with that bomb, *sigh*
15:37:50 #corewars: < brx> lol
15:37:51 #corewars: < grabek> as joonas has proved it
15:37:58 #corewars: < joonas> ah?
15:37:59 #corewars: < brx> so there is no way?
15:38:21 #corewars: < grabek> ok, seriously
15:38:34 #corewars: < grabek> it depends on kind of imp you fight against
15:39:07 #corewars: < grabek> if it is an A-imp (mov *0, #2667) you should use a bomb from nPaper II
15:39:21 #corewars: < grabek> against standard B-imps mov bomb, >somewhere
15:39:26 #corewars: < grabek> should be quite effective
15:39:44 #corewars: < grabek> basically, i'd say that paper effectivness is hidden in constants
15:40:02 #corewars: < grabek> also, the number of bombing lines is very important, as wel
15:40:06 #corewars: < grabek> s/wel$/well/
15:40:24 #corewars: < grabek> take pulp/disincentive for example
15:40:34 #corewars: < grabek> both use two bombing lines
15:41:15 #corewars: < grabek> other papers use just one mov bomb, >...
15:41:28 #corewars: < brx> mhm
15:42:29 #corewars: < joonas> so it's all in the magic bomb.
15:42:41 #corewars: < grabek> *i think so*
15:42:59 #corewars: < grabek> bomb constants may help in spreading the paper
15:43:03 #corewars: < joonas> one bomb which is good against b-imps is mov.i #0, <1
15:43:23 #corewars:  * grabek hasn't know it
15:43:27 #corewars: < joonas> and for a-imps (in nPaperII) it's mov.i #0, {1
15:43:43 #corewars: < brx> hmmmm
15:43:53 #corewars: < joonas> also, I think dat <2666, <5334 works pretty well for all 3 point imps.
15:43:55 #corewars: < brx> what about process control
15:44:11 #corewars: < joonas> how do you mean?
15:44:38 #corewars: < brx> how do i kill an imp with 5000 processes
15:44:46 #corewars: < grabek> how many?
15:44:51 #corewars: < brx> ^^
15:45:17 #corewars: < joonas> hm. please tell us when you find such a monster, and we'll bring our axes. ;-)
15:45:25 #corewars:  * grabek hasn't met a warrior with such a spiral
15:45:32 #corewars: < brx> no wait!
15:45:32 #corewars: < brx> lol
15:45:40 #corewars: < brx> not the imp
15:45:45 #corewars: < joonas> *phew*
15:46:07 #corewars: < brx> i was talking about a paper's bombing performance..
15:46:35 #corewars: < joonas> so.. are you asking: "How does a paper kill another paper with 5000 processes?" ?
15:46:50 #corewars: < grabek> hm
15:47:00 #corewars: < grabek> there're papers that kill other papers easily
15:47:02 #corewars: < brx> how does a paper with 5000 processes kill an imp/impring/-spiral whatever
15:47:08 #corewars: < grabek> (snoopy's paper, Moore's paper)
15:47:24 #corewars: < joonas> ah.
15:47:43 #corewars: < joonas> ok. so, each copy of the paper is bombing the core with the special bombs, right?
15:48:14 #corewars: < joonas> btw, when I say bombing, I mean linear bombing, or carpetting, where you bomb location X, X+1, ... X+N
15:48:22 #corewars: < brx> same here
15:48:38 #corewars: < joonas> and the imp gets caught in one/many of the carpets, it loses processes.
15:48:43 #corewars: < brx> but do all processes work on the same carpet?
15:48:57 #corewars: < joonas> hm.. can't say I remember any that do.
15:49:04 #corewars: < brx> how should the imp get caught.. it executes much faster
15:49:22 #corewars: < joonas> by pure chance. (pretty good odds too)
15:49:28 #corewars: < brx> good odds?
15:49:39 #corewars: < brx> i am laying down bombcarpets with plague
15:49:46 #corewars: < joonas> see, the paper only needs to catch *one* process of the imp spiral and then whole spiral goes down.
15:49:51 #corewars: < brx> i beat most stones until they launch their imps
15:49:52 #corewars: < brx> rofl
15:50:00 #corewars: < joonas> that's why the bombs mentioned above are *magic*
15:50:06 #corewars: < brx> hm
15:50:37 #corewars: < joonas> well, to be precise, the imp's tail process (then one that doesn't get refreshed) needs to be caught.
15:51:03 #corewars: < joonas> once the tail process gets caught, it infects/copies the magic bomb into the next process of the imp to execute.
15:51:24 #corewars: < joonas> this is true for the mov.i #0,<1 and mov.i #0, {1 bombs only, btw.
15:51:32 #corewars: < brx> mhm
15:52:08 #corewars: < joonas> and note that a typical imp actually *moves* pretty slowly.
15:53:00 #corewars: < brx> hmmm i will see
15:53:02 #corewars: < joonas> oh, note #2: the one point imp "mov 0,1" dies with just normal dat bombing.
15:53:36 #corewars: < joonas> because even though some of the papers are converted into imps, the remaining ones still get multiple shots at trying to nail the imp.
15:53:46 #corewars: < joonas> and usually they do.
15:54:38 #corewars: < joonas> you don't sound convinced.  have I lost my edge? :)
15:54:48 #corewars:  * joonas rattles his rusty chains.
15:55:01 #corewars: < brx> talking to me or to grabek? ^^
15:55:07 #corewars: < joonas> you :)
15:55:30 #corewars: < brx> ah i need to experiment more
15:55:50 #corewars: < joonas> yes. best way to see what goes on for yourself.
15:56:11 #corewars: < joonas> ok, time for me to go.
15:56:15 #corewars: < joonas> bye
15:56:19 #corewars: < brx> bye!
15:56:21 #corewars: < brx> and thanks!
15:56:29 #corewars: < joonas> np
15:56:36 -!- joonas [jpihlaja@kruuna.helsinki.fi] has quit [ircII2.8.2-EPIC3.004+Kasi --- Bloatware at its finest.]
15:57:01 #corewars: < grabek> what is your project, brx?
15:57:07 #corewars: < brx> my project?
15:58:24 #corewars: < grabek> your warrior....
15:58:58 #corewars: < brx> ah
15:59:07 #corewars: < brx> the paper
15:59:11 #corewars: < brx> of yesterda
15:59:12 #corewars: < brx> y
15:59:37 #corewars: < grabek> oh
15:59:45 #corewars: < grabek> as i said, papers are pretty easy to make
15:59:57 #corewars: < grabek> all you need is a good way of optimizing
16:01:02 #corewars: < brx> hm
16:01:36 #corewars: < grabek> check out Corewar lexicon on http://www.corewar.info
16:01:47 #corewars: < grabek> Fizmo describes a differend kind of papers there
17:17:52 #corewars: < brx> aaah i'm out for a while
17:17:53 #corewars: < brx> cu
17:17:54 -!- brx [~brx@pD9EAB9C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [leaving]
18:14:22 -!- Roy [~roy_van_r@kf-mss-cb01-00228.dial.kabelfoon.nl] has quit []
18:19:45 -!- Mizcu [Mizcu@dsl-hkigw4m4a.dial.inet.fi] has joined #corewars
18:42:41 -!- brx [~brx@pD9EAB9C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #corewars
18:43:22 #corewars: < Mizcu> hi brx
18:47:55 #corewars: < brx> hi
19:16:41 #corewars: < brx> hm
19:16:58 #corewars: < brx> you were right Mizcu, i utterly suck.
19:17:05 #corewars: < brx> brb, fetching pizza
19:20:10 #corewars: < grabek> Mizcu: what have you said to brx?
19:20:19 #corewars: < Mizcu> When did i say so?
19:20:41 #corewars: < grabek> you ask me?
19:20:51 #corewars: < grabek> i don't have a slightest idea
19:21:35 #corewars: < Mizcu> should've added brx: in the start
19:22:29 #corewars: < Mizcu> I've been away for few days and i havent said anything about him/his code, atleast i dont remember.
19:47:54 -!- phunk [~daquik@s32.dial3.sne.nac.net] has joined #corewars
19:48:32 #corewars: < Mizcu> and hi to our newest one
19:49:14 #corewars: < phunk> Hello
19:52:27 #corewars: < brx> re
19:54:08 #corewars: < brx> 19:25 < Mizcu> should've added brx: in the start
19:54:12 #corewars: < brx> Mizcu: huh?
19:54:55 #corewars: < Mizcu> grabek thought i asked him the question, while i meant to ask it from you
19:59:20 #corewars: < brx> aye, don't know. i guess a day after i had come here
20:04:29 #corewars: < Mizcu> i still cant remember or see in the logs such use of words
20:05:01 #corewars: < brx> oh yes, it was an implication.
20:07:07 -!- zadijan [~daquik@s186.dial2.sne.nac.net] has joined #corewars
20:08:35 -!- phunk [~daquik@s32.dial3.sne.nac.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
20:15:05 -!- zadijan is now known as phunk
20:46:38 -!- Jeff_K [~sascha@dial-194-8-195-234.netcologne.de] has joined #corewars
20:47:27 -!- Fizmo [~fizmo_mas@pD9E6EC4B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #corewars
20:47:36 #corewars: < Fizmo> hi
20:47:47 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Hi Chris...
20:49:19 #corewars: < Fizmo> Hi Sascha
21:03:00 -!- Hurkyl [~Hurkyl@dialup-67.74.235.48.Dial1.Baltimore1.Level3.net] has joined #corewars
21:03:53 #corewars: < Hurkyl> Hi all!
21:04:20 #corewars: < Fizmo> hi
21:04:41 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Hi David...nice to see you
21:04:47 #corewars: < Hurkyl> I have a quick question; is it possible to get the source code to my warriors from koth?
21:05:01 #corewars: < Hurkyl> I reformatted a couple weeks back, forgot to save my code. :\
21:06:51 #corewars: < Fizmo> hrm, I think you must ask jkw, he should have access to the source codes
21:07:12 #corewars: < Fizmo> but I guess to alive warriors only
21:07:14 #corewars: < Hurkyl> Ok, thanks!
21:07:21 #corewars: < Hurkyl> Well, I'm looking for slime in particular
21:08:12 #corewars: < Fizmo> A really nice scoring warrior
21:08:39 -!- willvarfa [~Will@arken-16-57-51.ip-pluggen.com] has joined #corewars
21:08:42 #corewars: < Hurkyl> Its constants seem pretty magical, and I don't want to toy with it without being able to resubmit the original :)
21:08:45 #corewars: < willvarfa> hello!  rules??
21:09:17 #corewars: < Fizmo> Hi Will, not yet ;-)
21:09:39 #corewars: < willvarfa> phew!!
21:09:39 #corewars: < Fizmo> I think LAchi will enter in 20 min.
21:10:22 #corewars: < Mizcu> Not yet at our record, but getting crowdy
21:10:48 -!- jakub [~jakub@chello217023243176.chello.sk] has joined #corewars
21:10:51 #corewars: < jakub> hello
21:10:59 #corewars: < willvarfa> hello jakub!
21:11:03 #corewars: < Hurkyl> Hi!
21:11:10 #corewars: < Fizmo> Hi Jakub
21:11:14 #corewars: < willvarfa> so, folks, how many of us here and ready for combat??
21:11:43 #corewars: < Fizmo> ATM most of them are afk'd
21:11:49 #corewars: < Mizcu> I dont know if i am in shape for a combat today, but i am here
21:11:54 #corewars: < Hurkyl> I'm DLing pMARS atm. :)
21:12:01 #corewars: < Fizmo> :)
21:12:10 #corewars: < jakub> :)
21:14:22 #corewars:  * Fizmo is using CoreWin :)
21:15:18 #corewars: < Hurkyl> pMARS DL's faster. wanted to be sure to be ready in time. =)
21:16:20 #corewars: < Fizmo> ermhh, who organizes this time?
21:18:20 -!- bvowk_ [~bvowk@h24-67-137-90.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #corewars
21:18:29 #corewars: < bvowk_> greets
21:18:44 #corewars: < Fizmo> hi
21:18:45 #corewars: < willvarfa> hi bvowk*
21:18:46 #corewars: < Hurkyl> hi!
21:19:01 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Hi 
21:19:19 #corewars: < jakub> hi
21:21:17 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Hey, so crowded this evening....Where is Steve..still in his bed ;-)
21:21:39 #corewars: < bvowk_> how's everybody doing today
21:22:11 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Nice, sweet Sunday Evening in Germany ;-)
21:26:18 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Hmm, LAchi should appaer in some minutes
21:32:48 #corewars:  * willvarfa strains at the leash
21:33:15 #corewars: < Fizmo> ok, we start in 5 minutes
21:33:25 #corewars: < Fizmo> everybody is ready?
21:33:38 #corewars:  * Jeff_K \o/
21:33:48 #corewars: < Fizmo> who will participate
21:33:52 #corewars: < Hurkyl> yep
21:34:02 #corewars: < Mizcu> _o-
21:34:24 #corewars: < jakub> |o-
21:34:25 #corewars: < jakub> :)
21:34:49 -!- Roy [~roy_van_r@kf-mss-cb01-00228.dial.kabelfoon.nl] has joined #corewars
21:34:57 #corewars:  * Roy won't be competing :( homework
21:35:00 #corewars: < Roy> hi btw
21:35:06 #corewars: < Roy> brb (fooood!)
21:35:06 #corewars: < Hurkyl> hi!
21:35:09 #corewars: < phunk> I would participate, but my warrior isn't ready. =/
21:35:12 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Hi Roy
21:35:21 #corewars: < jakub> hi
21:35:41 #corewars: < Jeff_K> phunk...: You've made a Warrior without knowing the rulez ?
21:36:00 #corewars: < phunk> Oh, I didn't know we were making new ones.
21:36:05 #corewars: < phunk> I'm still pretty new to this.
21:37:01 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Fizmo tell us teh rules in 2 Minutes..Then you have 30 minutes time to create one or two entry...Result are coming after 15-20 Minutes..speed-redcoding.;-)
21:37:12 #corewars: < Mizcu> We always have some specieal trick at our weekend-tournaments
21:37:29 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Only the best idea wins...no time for finetuning or optimizing.
21:38:26 #corewars: < willvarfa> and beginners often win (.. except me)
21:38:43 #corewars: < jakub> :)
21:38:53 #corewars: < Jeff_K> and me
21:38:58 #corewars: < Fizmo> pmars -s 800 -p 800 -c 8000 -l 8 -d 8
21:39:12 #corewars: < Fizmo> 1. restriction: > and } are disallowed for the mov instruction
21:39:21 -!- will_varf [~Will@arken-16-57-66.ip-pluggen.com] has joined #corewars
21:39:29 #corewars: < jakub> everything?
21:39:31 #corewars: < Fizmo> 2. restriction: djn instruction is disallowed
21:39:38 #corewars: < jakub> everything?
21:39:39 #corewars: < jakub> :)
21:40:03 #corewars: < Fizmo> yep. should be tricky enough for 30 minutes of coding
21:40:31 #corewars: < Jeff_K> O.K, editor loaded
21:40:36 #corewars: < will_varf> Fizmo, repeat 1.  (pinged out at bad time..)
21:40:42 #corewars: < Fizmo> 1. restriction: > and } are disallowed for the mov instruction
21:40:46 #corewars: < Fizmo> 2. restriction: djn instruction is disallowed
21:41:02 #corewars: < Fizmo> notice the 8 instruction limit
21:41:07 #corewars: < Fizmo> pmars -s 800 -p 800 -c 8000 -l 8 -d 8
21:41:18 #corewars: < Mizcu> (phunk: coresize 800, 800 maxprocesses, 8000 cycles run, maximum size 8 lines + restrictions)
21:41:45 #corewars: < Fizmo> 30 minutes from now
21:41:59 #corewars: < Fizmo> up to 2 entries are allowed
21:42:04 -!- willvarfa [~Will@arken-16-57-51.ip-pluggen.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
21:42:34 #corewars: < Fizmo> send it to: fizmo@corewar.info
21:42:39 -!- LAchi [~LAchi@d81-211-174-73.cust.tele2.it] has joined #corewars
21:42:45 #corewars: < Fizmo> LAchi
21:42:48 #corewars: < LAchi> helloooo
21:42:49 #corewars: < will_varf> if you run 1 warrior in pmars, can you tell if it died before the end of the cycles or not?
21:42:52 #corewars: < Fizmo> pmars -s 800 -p 800 -c 8000 -l 8 -d 8
21:42:55 #corewars: < Fizmo> 1. restriction: > and } are disallowed for the mov instruction
21:42:58 #corewars: < Fizmo> 2. restriction: djn instruction is disallowed
21:43:17 #corewars: < Fizmo> 29 minutes and 40 seconds to go
21:43:21 #corewars: < LAchi> wow just in time for a irct?
21:43:28 #corewars: < Fizmo> yes?
21:43:43 #corewars: < Fizmo> you entered shortly after I've announced the rules
21:43:53 #corewars: < Fizmo> send it to: fizmo@corewar.info
21:44:30 #corewars: < Fizmo> erhmm, it's a round-robin tournament this time
21:45:45 #corewars: < LAchi> really short warrior on a tiny core, no >} for mov and no djn?
21:46:29 #corewars: < Fizmo> yes
21:46:36 #corewars: < LAchi> nothing else?
21:46:56 #corewars: < Fizmo> should be enough :)
21:47:07 #corewars: < LAchi> ok I'll join ;)
21:52:17 #corewars: < Jeff_K> First is on the Way
21:53:20 #corewars:  * Fizmo is impressed
21:56:02 #corewars: < brx> mine is ready too
21:56:43 #corewars: < Hurkyl> I have one too! But I'm not sure if I'm gonna send it yet. Only 2 entries?
22:00:58 #corewars: < Hurkyl> time left?
22:01:38 #corewars: < Fizmo> 8 minutes
22:04:19 #corewars: < Roy> Me compates after all :)
22:04:30 #corewars: < Roy> Ok, 8 minutes left :0
22:04:33 #corewars: < Roy> oeeeeeeek!
22:04:36 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Second on the way.
22:05:06 #corewars: < Hurkyl> e-mail?
22:05:23 #corewars: < Jeff_K> O.K, time to get some fast food and sit back and wait for my last and before last place ;-)
22:05:27 #corewars: < will_varf> ok, pmars, if the warrior is alone in core and it is run -r 1 and it doesn't suicide, what is it's score?
22:05:41 #corewars: < Fizmo> send it to: fizmo@corewar.info
22:06:16 #corewars: < jakub> entries sent
22:07:06 #corewars: < Hurkyl> ok sent my entries
22:07:14 #corewars: < Hurkyl> Wish I had more time to try constants. :(
22:07:18 #corewars: < Jeff_K> I used your yahoo account fizmo..shall i sent to corewar.info ?
22:07:45 #corewars:  * Roy send two "things"
22:08:03 #corewars: < Roy> Random constants....always a big guess what the scores are :)
22:08:36 #corewars: < Roy> So, what did everybody make?
22:08:37 #corewars:  * will_varf can't compete
22:08:49 #corewars: < brx> neither i think
22:08:55 #corewars: < Roy> Homework can wait :)
22:09:24 #corewars:  * Jeff_K Stone and Oneshot
22:09:32 #corewars: < Hurkyl> a ssd clear and a silly paper
22:09:42 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Stone with decrement-stream ;-)
22:09:45 #corewars: < phunk> dwarf.
22:09:53 #corewars: < phunk> God, I suck =(
22:10:01 #corewars: < Fizmo> Ok, I got: 2x Hurkyl, 2x Roy, 2x Jakub, 1x Phunk, 1x Sascha
22:10:12 #corewars: < Roy> I made a oneshot (just a d-clear) and a paper :)
22:10:13 #corewars: < Jeff_K> i have send two entry's
22:10:15 -!- willvarfa [~Will@arken-16-57-38.ip-pluggen.com] has joined #corewars
22:10:25 #corewars: < jakub> imp spiral and 0.5c jmz oneshot with clear
22:10:30 #corewars: < Fizmo> checking my yahoo account
22:11:03 #corewars: < LAchi> ok sent mine
22:11:36 #corewars: < Hurkyl> dclear ahs to be tough with no djn instructions...
22:12:07 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Should i send again..Fizmo
22:12:37 #corewars: < Fizmo> 2x Hurkyl, 2x Jakub, 2x Roy, 2x Sascha, 2x LAchi, 1x Phunk
22:12:46 #corewars: < Fizmo> do I miss someone?
22:12:54 #corewars: < Mizcu> _O/
22:13:02 #corewars: < Mizcu> probably at the trashcan, AGAIN
22:13:12 -!- will_varf [~Will@arken-16-57-66.ip-pluggen.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
22:13:37 #corewars: < Fizmo> checking spam-folder
22:14:19 #corewars: < Jeff_K> brx: Nothing from you?
22:14:37 #corewars: < Fizmo> Mizcu: did you sent it to corewar.info or yahoo.com?
22:14:59 #corewars: < Mizcu> info
22:14:59 #corewars: < Fizmo> Mizcu, got it
22:15:45 #corewars: < brx> Jeff_K: nah don't think so
22:16:00 #corewars: < Fizmo> will? No entries this time?
22:17:49 #corewars: < willvarfa> hmm, scripting problems caused by pmars noviceness..
22:17:57 #corewars: < willvarfa> if you give me 20mins or so, I might have one..
22:18:16 #corewars: < jakub> :)
22:18:26 #corewars: < jakub> you know all you enemies :-p
22:18:30 #corewars: < jakub> your
22:18:49 #corewars: < Hurkyl> he's fighting stones, papers, and clears. Not much help =P
22:19:01 #corewars: < Fizmo> Well, send something handwritten, untested one
22:19:15 #corewars: < jakub> yes, but you have to win only again the main type :)
22:19:18 #corewars: < brx> well
22:19:19 #corewars: < brx> hm
22:19:22 #corewars: < brx> may i send mine in?
22:19:45 #corewars: < Jeff_K> brx: go on..!
22:19:46 #corewars: < Fizmo> ok
22:20:54 #corewars: < grabek> hi
22:21:07 #corewars: < Fizmo> hi
22:21:25 #corewars: < brx> omg this sucks
22:21:26 #corewars: < brx> anyway
22:21:35 #corewars: < grabek> hi Fizmo 
22:23:01 #corewars: < Jeff_K> I think a oneshot would be not so good by this anti paperwriter rules...anyways..hope for the best
22:23:01 #corewars: < Fizmo> brx: you sent it?
22:23:10 #corewars: < brx> i can't.. mailclient is going crazy
22:23:12 #corewars: < brx> one sec
22:23:15 #corewars: < brx> dcc?
22:23:32 #corewars:  * Roy made a paper :)
22:24:16 #corewars: < Fizmo> brx: fizmo@corewar.info
22:24:19 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Hmm, not enough space for a s/s/d clear...lucky roy i guess
22:24:48 #corewars: < LAchi> a paper without mov >} ?!?!
22:24:55 #corewars: < Roy> Well, Hurkyl made an SsD clear
22:24:59 #corewars: < brx> Fizmo: sent
22:25:08 #corewars: < Fizmo> LAchi: think on LP hill ;-)
22:25:11 #corewars: < Hurkyl> I wrote a paper without mov >} too. =)
22:25:34 #corewars: < Roy> Single process paper :)
22:25:37 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Hehe, so me oneshot has nice target's...thank you gentlemen
22:25:40 #corewars: < Roy> (non-silk)
22:25:41 #corewars: < Hurkyl> 4-proc 4 me
22:25:47 #corewars: < brx> as always i wrote something without any offensive capabilities
22:25:54 #corewars: < Roy> Jeff_K: I also made a oneshot, don't worry
22:26:04 #corewars: < Roy> (Didn't test either of them....)
22:26:22 #corewars: < Hurkyl> ack, and my clear starts right next to my warrior's body. Sigh, my ssd isn't gonna score very well. =(
22:26:28 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Wait and see the result....
22:26:50 #corewars: < Fizmo> ok, I start the tournament scheduler now, ok?
22:26:58 #corewars: < Fizmo> brx: got it
22:27:03 #corewars: < brx> kk Fizmo ^^
22:27:15 #corewars: < brx> who bets on brx going last place
22:27:23 #corewars: < phunk> not me. =/
22:27:56 #corewars: < Fizmo> scheduler is set to 200 rounds per battle
22:28:15 #corewars: < LAchi> I wrote an oneshot too
22:28:30 #corewars: < brx> phunk: what did you send in
22:28:37 #corewars: < Jeff_K> LAchi, nice work your oneshot last week!
22:28:38 #corewars: < phunk> dwarf
22:28:47 #corewars: < brx> phunk: dwarf. that beats my ridiculous creation ^^
22:28:49 #corewars: < jakub> that will be fast
22:28:52 #corewars:  * Fizmo prays that the scheduler doesn't crash
22:29:02 #corewars: < jakub> :)
22:29:03 #corewars: < brx> phunk: you're a newbie too?
22:29:07 #corewars: < phunk> Yeah
22:29:12 #corewars: < phunk> Just got started last night.
22:29:16 #corewars: < brx> nice
22:29:22 #corewars: < Jeff_K> that's pretty new ;-)
22:29:39 #corewars: < Mizcu> Well-made dwarf can beat our so-seemingly group of clears and shots ..
22:29:41 #corewars: < phunk> Indeed
22:29:50 #corewars: < jakub> :)
22:29:51 #corewars: < Fizmo> done
22:30:00 #corewars: < Fizmo> uploading now to my website
22:30:03 #corewars: < brx> lol
22:30:17 #corewars: < Mizcu> .. thats the irony in newbies on IRCT, nothing is every equivalent.
22:30:18 #corewars: < Fizmo> BTW, interesting results :)
22:30:26 #corewars: < Hurkyl> !
22:30:30 #corewars: < Mizcu> (nothing is ever equ)
22:30:34 #corewars: < Hurkyl> Suspense sucks!
22:30:39 #corewars: < jakub> :)
22:30:52 #corewars: < Roy> Curious now Fiz :)
22:31:04 #corewars: < brx> where does he upload it to
22:31:30 #corewars: < jakub> interesting was IRCT04 :)
22:31:51 #corewars: < Roy> No 30/31/32 :)
22:32:15 #corewars: < Roy> http://www.corewar.info/tournament/irc34/
22:32:21 #corewars: < Roy> If fizmo isn't going to post it :P
22:32:43 #corewars: < Hurkyl> !!!
22:32:52 #corewars: < brx> !!!
22:32:56 #corewars: < jakub> !!!
22:32:57 #corewars: < jakub> :)
22:32:58 #corewars: < Fizmo> http://www.corewar.info/tournament/irc34/INDEX.HTM
22:33:01 #corewars: < jakub> congrats
22:33:07 #corewars: < LAchi> IRC #5 (LOL)
22:33:18 #corewars: < Fizmo> erhhmm, forgot to change the header
22:33:26 #corewars: < Hurkyl> haha
22:33:49 #corewars: < willvarfa> congrats David Houston!
22:33:54 #corewars: < Mizcu> i sense... similiarity..
22:33:57 #corewars: < Hurkyl> Will there be detailed results too?
22:33:58 #corewars: < LAchi> congrats brx too!
22:33:58 #corewars: < Roy> Nice!
22:34:01 #corewars: < brx> thank you ^^
22:34:03 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Congrats brx...Nice place for a newbie!
22:34:13 #corewars: < jakub> I'm idiot, I thougt that < and { is disallowed too :-/
22:34:16 #corewars:  * LAchi starts an applause.
22:34:25 #corewars: < Fizmo> congrats
22:34:28 #corewars: < Hurkyl> I sense similarity too Miz! =)
22:34:32 #corewars: < Fizmo> Impressing debuts
22:36:33 #corewars: < Jeff_K> beside: phunk, brx where did you come from ?
22:36:49 #corewars: < grabek> Mom's belly?
22:37:14 #corewars: < brx> me? what do you mean?
22:37:40 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Which Country you are representing?
22:37:48 #corewars: < brx> ah germany
22:37:59 #corewars: < Jeff_K> which town...?
22:38:02 #corewars: < brx> mainz
22:38:14 #corewars:  * Jeff_K lives in Cologne
22:38:33 #corewars:  * brx smiles
22:38:43 #corewars:  * bvowk_ wonders
22:38:51 #corewars: < Fizmo> cool, I was from Mainz, too. Now I am in Berlin
22:38:58 #corewars: < brx> fassenacht heh? ^^
22:39:05 #corewars: < Hurkyl> Oh, I see, I think the oneshots couldn't find us Miz, because our clears start behind our warriors and you can only clear backwards. =)
22:39:14 #corewars: < brx> really Fizmo ?
22:39:14 #corewars: < Roy> Ich bin ein berliner!
22:39:24 #corewars: < Fizmo> brx: did you played cw before? I remember another redcoder some years ago who came from Mainz
22:39:31 #corewars: < brx> no
22:39:34 #corewars: < brx> i am fresh
22:39:37 #corewars: < LAchi> Keine gegenstande aus dem fenster werfen, bitte!
22:39:45 #corewars: < Fizmo> heh
22:40:00 #corewars: < phunk> Sorry, I was busy
22:40:01 #corewars:  * Fizmo shouts out loud: Hellau
22:40:04 #corewars: < phunk> But I'm from the USA
22:40:35 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Country?
22:40:49 #corewars: < Roy> Yo peeps, I can speak USA l33t language 2!
22:41:07 #corewars: < bvowk_> schweet!
22:41:29 -!- will_varf [~Will@arken-16-57-56.ip-pluggen.com] has joined #corewars
22:41:33 #corewars:  * Roy is a language expert :P
22:41:39 #corewars:  * LAchi spreche Deutsch nicht!
22:41:56 #corewars:  * will_varf inte heller!
22:42:32 #corewars: < Hurkyl> erm... Ein Klein Nacht Musik?
22:42:42 #corewars:  * Roy can even say: Knäkebrød!
22:42:53 #corewars: < phunk> Not all of us are that obnoxious.
22:42:57 #corewars: < phunk> Granted, more than 95% are.
22:43:00 #corewars: < phunk> But not all.
22:43:01 #corewars: < brx> helaaau
22:43:01 #corewars: < phunk> =P
22:43:13 #corewars: < Roy> Tjuuus!
22:43:23 #corewars: < Hurkyl> Ah, one of my favorite jokes: What do you call someone who can speak 3 languages?
22:43:26 #corewars:  * brx hugs phunk 
22:43:40 #corewars: < grabek> Hurkyl: ?
22:43:44 #corewars: < Hurkyl> trilingual. What do you call someone who can speak 2 languages?
22:43:51 #corewars: < Roy> bilangual
22:43:53 #corewars: < phunk> Bilingual
22:43:59 #corewars: < Hurkyl> What do you call someone who can speak 1 language?
22:44:03 #corewars: < phunk> American?
22:44:06 #corewars: < Hurkyl> yep!
22:44:06 #corewars:  * Roy can't even speak
22:44:06 -!- willvarfa [~Will@arken-16-57-38.ip-pluggen.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
22:44:10 #corewars: < Roy> A frenchman!
22:44:10 #corewars: < Fizmo> :)
22:44:13 #corewars: < Roy> :O
22:44:18 #corewars: < brx> ^^
22:44:28 #corewars: < grabek> :-)
22:45:04 #corewars:  * Fizmo remembers that Roy can speak blabla
22:45:08 #corewars:  * LAchi rotlfmao.
22:45:36 #corewars: < Roy> Thats a very complicated language! :) works a bit like morse
22:46:11 #corewars: < Fizmo> with either a short a or a long a in bla
22:46:29 #corewars: < Roy> bla bla blaaa blaaa bla blaaa blaa blaaaa
22:46:52 #corewars: < Roy> bla bla bla blaaa blaaa blaaa bla bla bla (S.O.S.)
22:47:08 #corewars: < Fizmo> lol
22:47:29 #corewars:  * LAchi blabla otfl!
22:48:11 #corewars:  * Jeff_K thinks bla bla is the most international language of all. Even Baby's speak them !
22:48:27 #corewars: < phunk> Everybody can speak it.
22:48:34 #corewars: < phunk> Nobody can understand it.
22:48:53 #corewars: < LAchi> Sorry people, I must code a Java Servlet before next Thu... and tomorrow evening I go to the cinema.
22:48:59 #corewars: < Roy> blaa bla blaa bla - blaa blaa blaa - bla blaa bla - bla - bla blaa blaa - bla blaa - bla blaa bla - bla bla bla (COREWARS :))
22:49:22 #corewars: < Roy> That was actualy my first word ever :)
22:49:33 #corewars:  * brx breathes
22:49:40 #corewars:  * Fizmo waves to LAchi
22:49:47 #corewars: < brx> bye LAchi 
22:49:47 #corewars: < brx> !
22:49:52 #corewars: < Jeff_K> cu LAchi
22:49:53 #corewars: < Hurkyl> bye!
22:50:42 #corewars:  * LAchi waves all twirling his hands in some strange way. He can do it, he's on IRC! ;)
22:51:08 #corewars: < Roy> (Don't worry, he is married and has kinds)
22:51:18 #corewars:  * Roy waves too! (but not in that way)
22:51:22 #corewars: < Fizmo> kinds?
22:51:42 #corewars: < brx> kids?
22:51:45 #corewars: < Fizmo> :)
22:51:50 #corewars: < LAchi> kid. just one ;)
22:52:01 #corewars:  * brx smiles
22:52:12 #corewars:  * Fizmo too
22:52:13 #corewars: < LAchi> anyway, I am NOT married ;)
22:52:21 #corewars: < Roy> ow :)
22:52:22 #corewars:  * Jeff_K smiles three times!
22:52:29 #corewars: < Roy> You should! :P
22:52:43 #corewars: < LAchi> not anymore
22:52:52 #corewars: < Roy> Ok...
22:52:55 #corewars:  * Roy sits down
22:53:02 #corewars: < Roy> This is going to be a long story :)
22:53:20 #corewars: < LAchi> next time Roy.
22:53:46 #corewars: < Fizmo> hope to see you all on next sunday again
22:53:46 #corewars:  * LAchi waves definitely.
22:53:52 #corewars:  * brx ods
22:53:55 #corewars: < brx> nod
22:53:56 #corewars: < brx> s
22:53:56 #corewars:  * will_varf *waves*
22:54:01 #corewars: < brx> byeee
22:54:06 #corewars: < LAchi> dat 0,0
22:54:11 #corewars: < phunk> Be right back...
22:54:12 -!- LAchi [~LAchi@d81-211-174-73.cust.tele2.it] has left #corewars []
22:54:15 -!- phunk is now known as phunk[php
22:54:23 -!- phunk[php is now known as phunk\php
23:00:33 #corewars:  * Fizmo is happy that the tournament scheduler was working as expected
23:00:48 #corewars: < brx> wouldn't be so sure of that
23:01:02 #corewars: < brx> if you look at my results
23:01:07 #corewars: < Fizmo> :)
23:01:10 #corewars: < brx> ^^
23:01:34 #corewars: < Jeff_K> hehe, just the right idea and some luck and you will be good at the IRCT
23:01:51 #corewars: < Jeff_K> In Frenzy and IRCT often newbies gets good places...
23:01:58 #corewars: < brx> :)
23:02:13 #corewars: < brx> i am going to climb a hill
23:02:19 #corewars: < Mizcu> I've been at the lower positions for many irct's and now #2..
23:02:25 #corewars: < Hurkyl> Climbing a hill is fun. =)  Takes a lot of work though :(
23:02:37 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Try to polish up your entry and send it to the SAL-beginners hil.
23:02:48 #corewars: < brx> this one?
23:03:13 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Just Try it, and see whisch problems he has...Ok, first you must expand him for 8000er core!
23:03:19 #corewars: < Fizmo> I am shure you won't be in last position
23:03:39 #corewars: < Jeff_K> But then...some booting, some decoy or qscan and viola..just try it.
23:03:49 #corewars:  * brx nods
23:03:50 #corewars: < brx> i will
23:04:24 #corewars: < Jeff_K> And after the first test you know what are your real enemy's and then try to get more ties against them..
23:04:52 #corewars: < Hurkyl> and bump up your win% agaisnt your prey
23:04:54 #corewars: < brx> i guess i will throw those 3 ideas together. the airbag stone, the plague bomb carpets and maybe those positioned clears
23:05:01 #corewars: < Jeff_K> make loss to tie and ties to win...;-)..After taht some optimizing the cobnstants and so on..email me if you want some help!
23:05:44 #corewars:  * brx smiles
23:05:46 #corewars: < brx> thank you ^^
23:06:36 #corewars: < Jeff_K> email is sascha.zapf@koeln.de
23:08:03 #corewars:  * Roy goes to bed, party and valentine, I'm almost a zombie now
23:08:25 #corewars: < brx> good night Roy 
23:08:25 #corewars: < Jeff_K> cu Roy....
23:08:47 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Roy can i expect an entry for rnd16?
23:08:49 #corewars: < Hurkyl> braaiinnnssss... er, g'night
23:08:56 #corewars: < Roy> Yes you can :)
23:09:04 #corewars: < Jeff_K> schweet!
23:09:09 #corewars: < Roy> I have two ready to send anytime now :)
23:09:23 #corewars: < Jeff_K> send...;-)
23:09:36 #corewars: < Roy> EvilSmallCharP-spaceWarrior!
23:09:37 #corewars:  * Fizmo waves
23:09:47 #corewars: < Jeff_K> i have one from Joshua and to from Fizmo...and mine two.
23:10:11 #corewars: < Roy> I have two ready to send, but today I created the second, maybe I'll send them soon
23:10:21 #corewars: < Roy> bye!
23:10:23 -!- Roy [~roy_van_r@kf-mss-cb01-00228.dial.kabelfoon.nl] has quit []
23:10:44 #corewars:  * Fizmo is watching over Saschas encrypted entries ;-)
23:11:17 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Hmm, i have send the wrong..without cutting the source...
23:12:32 -!- willvarfa [~Will@arken-16-57-30.ip-pluggen.com] has joined #corewars
23:14:52 -!- will_varf [~Will@arken-16-57-56.ip-pluggen.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
23:15:04 #corewars:  * willvarfa *waves*
23:15:12 #corewars: < Jeff_K> cu
23:15:16 -!- willvarfa [~Will@arken-16-57-30.ip-pluggen.com] has quit [Lämnar]
23:19:14 #corewars: < brx> hey, i noticed something
23:19:24 #corewars: < brx> corewar can be fun
23:19:30 #corewars:  * Jeff_K knows
23:19:37 #corewars: < Fizmo> :)
23:20:10 #corewars: < brx> it really is an interesting 'ga,e
23:20:12 #corewars: < brx> me'
23:20:25 #corewars: < Fizmo> yes, it is
23:20:27 #corewars: < Jeff_K> the depper the more interesting...
23:20:33 #corewars: < Jeff_K> deeper..sorry
23:21:35 #corewars: < brx> i think the next big warrior i write will be mildly successful
23:23:32 #corewars: < Jeff_K> we see him on the beginner hill....do you know Königsstuhl....there you can get 100 of redcodes of the most succesful warriors ever !"
23:24:16 #corewars: < brx> yes i think i know
23:24:42 #corewars: < Fizmo> check also: http://www.corewar.info/lexicon/lexicon.htm
23:25:29 #corewars: < brx> done that today Fizmo ^^
23:27:35 #corewars: < Fizmo> not very complete at the moment but slowly growing
23:30:41 #corewars: < Fizmo> my favoured strategy is the most complete one ;-)
23:30:55 #corewars: < Fizmo> paper forever!!!
23:31:00 #corewars: < brx> ^^
23:31:06 #corewars: < Hurkyl> haha
23:31:30 #corewars: < brx> why paper?
23:32:15 #corewars: < Fizmo> I don't know why. But I like that strategy
23:32:47 #corewars: < Hurkyl> papers are mystifying. =\
23:32:58 #corewars:  * Fizmo is the master of the silkland
23:33:49 #corewars: < brx> i have written a silkpaper yesterday, but the bombcarpets are not nicely distributed, furthermore it can#t kill imps
23:34:13 #corewars: < phunk\php> I'm trying an Imp Spiral next time.
23:34:22 #corewars: < phunk\php> I've got one written, and I want to see how well it does.
23:34:26 #corewars: < Fizmo> Well, the constants are the most important part of a paper
23:34:42 #corewars: < brx> phunk\php: let's enter a beginner hill soon ^^
23:34:52 #corewars: < Fizmo> what kind of bomb do you using in the paper?
23:35:03 #corewars: < phunk\php> brx, I plan on it. :P
23:35:11 #corewars: < Mizcu> phunk: build yourself an benchmark and run selfmade warriors against it, easier and less wasteful.
23:35:20 #corewars: < brx> Fizmo: yes i noticed today, i am throwing boring dat bombs
23:35:55 #corewars: < Fizmo> if it is a dat <2667, <2*2667 then it's ok against imps
23:36:10 #corewars: < brx> yup, i throw bring ones though ^^
23:36:14 #corewars: < brx> not magic ones
23:36:20 #corewars: < brx> grabek and *thinks*
23:36:35 #corewars: < brx> have spkoen to me about this today
23:36:37 #corewars: < Hurkyl> mov.i #1, <1 is pretty nice 
23:37:22 #corewars: < Fizmo> one should optimize the constants of the paper
23:37:50 #corewars: < Fizmo> anti-imp dat bomb should be ok
23:37:59 #corewars: < Jeff_K> brx: Do you use an optimizer?
23:39:03 #corewars: < brx> Jeff_K: naah
23:39:04 #corewars: < Jeff_K> For Paper the steps are 'the magical breath'
23:39:07 #corewars: < Fizmo> with the mov-bomb you'll get easier good results (not so constant sensitive in my opinion)
23:39:10 #corewars: < phunk\php> Well, I saved all the warriors from the previous competition, and ran my new one against them.
23:39:13 #corewars: < phunk\php> Came in second place. :P
23:39:42 #corewars: < brx> what were the rules for thelast comp again?
23:39:51 #corewars: < brx> they were  sadistic ^^
23:39:58 #corewars: < phunk\php> No > and } in MOV.
23:40:09 #corewars: < Fizmo> As a first benchmark you could let it run against WilMoo or WilFiz
23:40:13 #corewars: < brx> meant the one before ^^
23:40:38 #corewars: < Jeff_K> brx: Create a small Programm that's create versions of your warrior where placeholder are substitutet by random-values and let them fight against a bench of 20 to 40 Warrior, so you cann get good steps for YOUR Paper.
23:40:42 #corewars: < Mizcu> Wilkies if you dont want to be depressed by low results at the beginning
23:40:57 #corewars: < Fizmo> erhmm, yes I should prepare and upload it :-/
23:41:20 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Wilkies is on your Site fiz?
23:41:28 #corewars: < brx> Jeff_K: oh well, might do, yes. thanks
23:41:46 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Using Perl would be a great help...
23:41:52 #corewars: < Fizmo> here is a comparison between Wilkies, WilMoo and WilFiz:
23:41:54 #corewars: < Fizmo> http://www.corewar.info/Benchmark.htm
23:42:12 #corewars: < brx> Jeff_K: i know a lot of languages, i was thinking about perl for doing this, yes ^^
23:42:36 #corewars: < brx> but i believe bash could suffice
23:42:55 #corewars: < Fizmo> Jeff: yes, all four are there
23:42:57 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Ok, bash can do it too..
23:43:20 #corewars: < brx> btw i am reading your handbook
23:43:22 #corewars: < Jeff_K> But sometimes i use Windows and there i can't install bash.
23:43:31 #corewars: < brx> ah *nods*
23:44:02 #corewars: < Fizmo> Extremely nice written handbook in german language
23:44:07 #corewars: < Jeff_K> hope you find it useful...Never correxted it. Written in 3 Days..
23:44:16 #corewars: < brx> three days?
23:44:19 #corewars: < brx> 93 pages?
23:44:21 #corewars: < Fizmo> 3 days only?!?
23:44:55 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Yep, that's why it is written so ugly ;-)
23:45:49 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Thats was the Times after my first Corewars AHA-Erlebnis..and i mjust write all down to teach it to myself. That my style to leran..Try to teach it to other persons
23:46:11 #corewars: < Fizmo> mov.p fizmo, bed
23:46:31 #corewars: < Fizmo> wird ein langer Tag für mich Morgen :-/
23:46:43 #corewars: < brx> gut nacht
23:46:54 #corewars: < Fizmo> Ja, gute Nacht
23:46:58 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Ich mache mich ebenfalls auffen Weg...
23:47:03 #corewars: < Fizmo> bye
23:47:08 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Grüße nach Mainz und Berlin !
23:47:09 #corewars: < brx> bye 
23:47:11 #corewars: < brx> *waves*
23:47:13 #corewars: < brx> danke ^^
23:47:15 #corewars:  * Jeff_K waves
23:47:17 #corewars: < Hurkyl> bye!
23:47:23 #corewars: < Jeff_K> bye David
23:47:24 #corewars:  * Fizmo waves
23:47:32 -!- Fizmo [~fizmo_mas@pD9E6EC4B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []
23:47:34 -!- Jeff_K [~sascha@dial-194-8-195-234.netcologne.de] has left #corewars []
23:47:47 #corewars:  * brx stretches
23:47:52 #corewars: < Mizcu> dat <mizcu, <-mizcu
23:47:56 -!- Mizcu [Mizcu@dsl-hkigw4m4a.dial.inet.fi] has left #corewars []
23:48:47 -!- bvowk_ [~bvowk@h24-67-137-90.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [using sirc version 2.211+ssfe]
23:56:23 -!- Hurkyl [~Hurkyl@dialup-67.74.235.48.Dial1.Baltimore1.Level3.net] has quit [Leaving]
--- Log closed Mon Feb 16 00:00:08 2004