--- Log opened Mon Jan 12 00:00:28 2004
08:46:38 -!- Mizcu [Mizcu@dsl-hkigw4m4a.dial.inet.fi] has joined #corewars
15:37:24 -!- bvowk_ [~bvowk@h24-67-137-90.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
16:09:07 #corewars: < bvowk> hrm
16:09:45 #corewars: < Mizcu> mrh
16:12:15 #corewars: < jaska> mrr
16:20:01 -!- Mizcu [Mizcu@dsl-hkigw4m4a.dial.inet.fi] has quit []
17:11:10 -!- willvarfa [~Will@arken-16-57-115.ip-pluggen.com] has joined #corewars
17:11:14 #corewars: < willvarfa> hi folks
17:11:22 #corewars: < bvowk> heya wil
17:15:13 #corewars: < willvarfa> how ya doing barkley?
17:15:38 #corewars: < bvowk> not so bad
17:17:14 #corewars: < willvarfa> been hitting the hills a bit I see
17:17:19 #corewars: < willvarfa> congrats!
17:22:02 #corewars: < bvowk> thanks :)
17:25:49 -!- will_varf [~Will@arken-16-57-77.ip-pluggen.com] has joined #corewars
17:28:15 -!- willvarfa [~Will@arken-16-57-115.ip-pluggen.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
17:29:34 -!- Mizcu [Mizcu@dsl-hkigw4m4a.dial.inet.fi] has joined #corewars
17:39:06 -!- London1 [London1@81.5.176.196] has joined #coreWARS
17:39:27 #coreWARS: < London1> hallo
17:39:36 #corewars: < will_varf> hello London1
17:40:27 #coreWARS: < London1> Will, good afternoon
17:42:41 #coreWARS: < London1> I am here http://www.doubleclick-cafe.com/
17:43:02 #coreWARS: < London1> My grandpa used to own this place 50 years ago
17:43:43 #corewars: < will_varf> golly, that is one old internet cafe!'
17:45:03 #coreWARS: < London1> ah, it was something different then ;-)
17:45:12 #coreWARS: < London1> Hang on, swapping terminals.
17:45:14 -!- London1 [London1@81.5.176.196] has quit []
17:47:04 -!- London1 [London1@81.5.176.216] has joined #corewars
17:47:09 #corewars: < London1> Returned
17:48:33 #corewars:  * London1 wonders how this webcam thing works
17:48:56 #corewars: < Mizcu> didnt seem to work much when i checked
17:49:57 #corewars: < London1> How did you check?
17:50:25 #corewars: < Mizcu> went to the website w/ opera and ie, java refused to co-operate
17:52:34 #corewars: < London1> Hmmm...
17:54:03 #corewars: < will_varf> for me neither
17:54:05 #corewars: < will_varf> oh well
17:54:06 #corewars: < will_varf> bbl
17:54:09 -!- will_varf [~Will@arken-16-57-77.ip-pluggen.com] has quit [Lämnar]
17:54:51 #corewars: < London1> See you later
17:57:24 #corewars: < Mizcu> So, are already up-to-date about CW or want a report?
17:58:30 #corewars:  * London1 is it to date.
18:13:39 #corewars:  * bvowk wonders
18:17:17 #corewars: < London1> Good morning bvowk
18:19:09 #corewars: < bvowk> good morning.
18:19:13 #corewars: < bvowk> are you new?
18:19:35 #corewars: < London1> No.
18:19:49 #corewars: < bvowk> oh, new nic?
18:20:06 #corewars: < bvowk> if you keep jumping around, I'm going to get confused :)
18:20:06 #corewars: < London1> No, no, just accessing from a new place
18:20:14 #corewars:  * London1 apologises :-/
18:20:28 #corewars:  * London1 only has three nicks to use here
18:21:25 #corewars: < Mizcu> Metcalf, Corechild, Marsfreak, place_of_the_webcafe1
18:21:34 #corewars: < London1> :-)
18:21:47 #corewars: < London1> Yes, only this webcafe is in Skegness
18:22:31 #corewars: < London1> And the webcam doesn't seem to work :-/
18:23:40 #corewars: < London1> LP Multiwarrior is a neat idea.
18:23:53 #corewars: < London1> J K Lewis did that once...
18:25:07 #corewars:  * London1 has been programming in Z80 assembler today.
18:25:22 -!- willvarfa [~Will@arken-16-57-119.ip-pluggen.com] has joined #corewars
18:25:22 #corewars: < London1> Looked through my notepad for a program.
18:25:22 #corewars: < bvowk> Z80 huh?
18:25:34 #corewars: < bvowk> whatcha haxoring?
18:25:57 #corewars: < London1> Found one version on page 13, note at the bottom saying version 2 is on page 17.
18:26:10 #corewars:  * London1 quickly found page 17 was missing :-/
18:26:22 #corewars: < bvowk> heh
18:26:29 #corewars: < London1> Just finding some Z80 code for my webpage.
18:26:40 #corewars: < London1> Welcome back will.
18:26:40 #corewars:  * bvowk paid for a copy of pocketC the other day
18:27:04 #corewars: < London1> There is very little good asm code on the net.
18:27:29 #corewars: < London1> Interesting algorithms are good.
18:27:34 #corewars: < bvowk> for my new faster palm...
18:27:39 #corewars: < bvowk> its pretty cool :)
18:28:02 #corewars:  * London1 doesn't have any experience with those :-/
18:28:06 #corewars: < bvowk> I'm not sure about the quality of the random numbers tho
18:28:28 #corewars: < London1> How high do you want the quality to be?
18:28:38 #corewars: < bvowk> so I was thinking about hacking an ent applet (from John Walkers program of the same name)
18:29:04 #corewars: < London1> RNG should be implemented in the OS.  This way, everyone uses a good algorithm, because it is easier than implementing your own.
18:29:05 #corewars: < bvowk> one of the things I do most often is run little math sims to test out my ideas
18:29:24 #corewars: < bvowk> no, ent is a program to check the entropy in a stream of numbers
18:29:28 #corewars:  * London1 runs all sorts of wierd things.
18:29:39 #corewars: < London1> Busy Beavers (Turing Machine)
18:29:43 #corewars: < bvowk> :)
18:29:49 #corewars: < bvowk> you do run wierd things :)
18:29:55 #corewars:  * London1 has used ENT
18:30:22 #corewars: < London1> (maybe under some other name, but for the same purpose)
18:30:30 #corewars: < bvowk> but the palm does have os RNG, and the games seem to be random, and the various crypto programs don't mention any strangeness about random
18:30:46 #corewars: < London1> Also wrote a program to make word squares
18:30:47 #corewars: < London1> Chat
18:30:47 #corewars: < bvowk> leading me to believe there might me hardware RNG somewhere
18:30:55 #corewars: < London1> CHAT
18:30:57 #corewars: < London1> LOCH
18:30:58 #corewars: < London1> AURA
18:31:00 #corewars: < London1> WREN
18:31:22 #corewars: < London1> = Four words across, four words down, and one word diagonal
18:31:36 #corewars: < bvowk> heh
18:31:38 #corewars: < bvowk> cool
18:32:41 #corewars:  * London1 is adding clues (e.g. 4840 square yards for ACRE)
18:32:57 #corewars: < London1> Then sending them to magazines as puzzles. :-)
18:33:12 #corewars: < London1> I'll find some 5 x 5 squares next.
18:33:54 #corewars: < London1> I can't find one consisting of corewar words unfortunately :-/
18:34:45 #corewars:  * London1 has to go in two minutes :-/
18:34:59 #corewars: < bvowk> http://www.fourmilab.ch/fist/ :)
18:36:14 #corewars: < London1> Nice :-)
18:36:30 #corewars:  * London1 once wrote a program to change a bitmap into ASCII art
18:36:41 #corewars: < London1> (including dealing with grey shades)
18:36:51 #corewars: < bvowk> I love the left and right handed support :)
18:39:12 #corewars: < willvarfa> like aa?
18:39:13 #corewars: < willvarfa> cool!
18:39:26 -!- London1 [London1@81.5.176.216] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
18:42:11 #corewars: < willvarfa> ha, ath fist gave me a great idea for a website!
18:42:42 #corewars: < willvarfa> a 'make your own joke newspaper frontpage' site
18:43:21 #corewars: < willvarfa> you give it a photo, and supply the text, and it puts that into a selectively-realistic-looking newspaper surround for you to print out
18:43:35 #corewars: < willvarfa> original or what?
18:44:53 #corewars: < Mizcu> Hmm.. i've always liked local gamemagazine's old idea of making a game "Magazine Tycoon"
18:46:08 #corewars: < willvarfa> wow, good idea!
18:46:19 #corewars:  * willvarfa likes tycoon type games
18:46:35 #corewars: < willvarfa> interesting completely new type of game interface too :-)
18:47:33 #corewars: < Mizcu> Someone had made a small rant about how there were too many advertisements in the magazine and in return they answer:
18:48:09 #corewars: < Mizcu> "Wish there was a game called Magazine Tycoon that would teach that making magazine costs money and advertisements give it"
18:48:22 #corewars: < willvarfa> :-)
18:48:24 -!- Roy [~roy_van_r@kf-mss-cb01-0965.dial.kabelfoon.nl] has joined #corewars
18:48:33 #corewars: < willvarfa> hello Roy
18:48:55 #corewars: < willvarfa> felt like the sun was shining this morning (even if it wasn't)?
18:49:10 #corewars: < Roy> Hi :)
18:49:38 #corewars: < Roy> Nah, I had enormous pain in my shoulder this morning, couldn't type/write all day :(
18:49:40 #corewars:  * willvarfa congratulates Roy on his IRCT sweeping yesterday
18:49:50 #corewars: < willvarfa> oh ouch!
18:49:55 #corewars: < willvarfa> feeling better now?
18:49:57 #corewars: < Roy> Thanks! did you see the SAL > LP hill?
18:50:07 #corewars:  * willvarfa goes looks
18:50:14 #corewars: < Roy> Yeah, it just snapped or something, and now its feeling fine again :)
18:50:26 #corewars: < willvarfa> crikey!
18:50:29 #corewars: < Mizcu> Roy: Were there so much hurry for you on the IRCT?
18:50:39 #corewars: < willvarfa> is this some massively new concept or something that you've found, Roy?
18:50:42 #corewars: < Roy> Probebly :P
18:50:57 #corewars: < Roy> Now, the warrior I made is very close to Roskilde
18:51:02 #corewars: < Roy> (Thats what Fizmo said)
18:51:16 #corewars: < Roy> Its almost the same warrior as the one from yesterday
18:51:26 #corewars: < willvarfa> yeap, only a mere 7 (read'em, SEVEN) points in it ;-D
18:51:27 #corewars: < Roy> (Together with a simple scanner and a qscan)
18:52:07 #corewars: < Roy> But still, Devilstick gives me a better feeling (6 points on koth.org is HUGE)
18:52:28 #corewars: < Roy> But those LP papers are also fun, never played with LP before
18:52:35 -!- will_varf [~Will@arken-16-57-75.ip-pluggen.com] has joined #corewars
18:52:43 #corewars: < Roy> I have a great plan, but its hard to make I think...
18:54:59 -!- willvarfa [~Will@arken-16-57-119.ip-pluggen.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
18:57:45 #corewars: < will_varf> me too
18:57:54 #corewars: < will_varf> that is the problem with great plans.. :'(
18:58:31 #corewars: < Roy> I've been thinking of a stone that starts with multible processes and loses some after a while, then combine it with a paper
18:58:40 #corewars: < Roy> What was your hard plan?
18:59:12 #corewars: < Mizcu> losing processes is simple but losing only some..
18:59:43 #corewars: < Roy> I want it to start with 4 processes and lose two....still thats easy, but calculating stepsizes is hard...
19:00:26 #corewars: < Mizcu> dat/mov/add/djn -2,  trigger with self-hitting djn
19:01:16 #corewars: < Roy> I just thought about mov/mov/add/djn -3  and throw a dat }3 on the first move
19:02:04 #corewars: < will_varf> do countdowns etc make the stone less bomb-resistant?
19:02:58 #corewars: < Mizcu> and decrement/increment also
19:03:48 #corewars: < Mizcu> roy's stone dies when overrun by djn-stream
19:04:40 #corewars: < will_varf> a fall-through component?
19:04:57 #corewars: < Mizcu> and mine too, since the manipulation might hit dat also
19:04:59 #corewars: < Roy> Hmm...
19:05:07 #corewars: < Roy> Thats probebly why I suck at stone :)
19:12:08 #corewars: < Mizcu> away from irc now, sis coming at comp
19:12:21 #corewars: < Roy> don't do it!!
19:12:29 #corewars: < Roy> sis's are evil :)
19:12:43 #corewars: < Mizcu> this one is too stupid to be evil
19:12:48 #corewars: < will_varf> sis?
19:12:51 #corewars: < Roy> ter
19:12:59 #corewars: < will_varf> ah of course :-)
19:13:24 #corewars: < Roy> but stupid sis's are dangerous too (OoohhhH! What does this button do!?)
19:13:59 #corewars: < Mizcu> That's why she uses restricted user account instead of my admin'rights
19:14:03 -!- Mizcu [Mizcu@dsl-hkigw4m4a.dial.inet.fi] has quit []
19:14:14 #corewars: < Roy> hehe, I have that too
19:14:28 #corewars: < Roy> I have a "Roy" account and a "Not Roy" account
19:14:32 #corewars: < will_varf> I thought that was just to stop them finding your p*** cache?
19:14:41 #corewars: < Roy> lol
19:19:02 #corewars: < Roy> Where were you comming to Holland?
19:22:37 #corewars: < will_varf> einhoven
19:22:44 #corewars: < will_varf> at the end of the month
19:22:53 #corewars: < will_varf> I still haven't booked, and I haven't seen my speech either
19:23:01 #corewars: < will_varf> all a bit troublesome really
19:23:10 #corewars: < Roy> Hehe, well, its fun in Eindhoven though
19:23:21 #corewars: < Roy> You'll probebly have a good time
19:23:36 -!- joonas [jpihlaja@kruuna.helsinki.fi] has joined #corewars
19:23:44 #corewars: < bvowk> joonas!
19:23:46 #corewars: < joonas> hi everyone
19:23:51 -!- willvarfa [~Will@arken-16-57-101.ip-pluggen.com] has joined #corewars
19:25:45 #corewars: < joonas> so, does anyone here know about ARP?
19:25:51 #corewars: < Roy> ARP..?
19:25:58 #corewars: < joonas> address routing protocol
19:26:00 #corewars: < joonas> I think
19:26:04 #corewars: < willvarfa> yeap
19:26:10 #corewars: < willvarfa> bvowk is your man joonas
19:26:15 #corewars: < Roy> I know that yes
19:26:19 #corewars: < willvarfa> I only know a little bit
19:26:21 -!- will_varf [~Will@arken-16-57-75.ip-pluggen.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
19:26:33 #corewars: < Roy> RFC 826...
19:26:34 #corewars: < joonas> what can cause arp lookup to fail?
19:26:38 #corewars: < willvarfa> got into arp poisioning once
19:26:51 #corewars: < joonas> thanks roy
19:26:54 #corewars: < willvarfa> ah /me surrenders, no idea
19:27:49 #corewars: < Roy> There are about a million reasons ARP isn't working :)
19:28:49 #corewars: < joonas> well every once in a while for a few days I get a bunch of failures saying: "arplookup a.b.c.d failed: host is not on local network"
19:28:59 #corewars: < joonas> where a.b.c.d is an IP address.
19:29:09 #corewars: < joonas> but I've no idea why the box would be trying to arplookup in the first place
19:29:13 #corewars: < joonas> that address
19:29:35 #corewars: < joonas> then, after a few days, no such errors are reported for a long time.
19:30:31 #corewars: < joonas> hm.. that's odd.
19:30:48 #corewars: < joonas> the ip address is registered to IANA.
19:30:53 #corewars: < Roy> Maybe there once was a server or something that used that ip, and now some router or something want to find it (because it is in some lookuptable) but can't find it, and after a while it gives up, until it refreshes its list again (maybe once/twice a month)
19:31:01 #corewars:  * willvarfa gets this from some newsgroup:
19:31:02 #corewars: < willvarfa> "You have computers on your hub that have a network number that doesn't
19:31:03 #corewars: < willvarfa> jive with the IP/netmask you've assigned to the network card.  If you
19:31:03 #corewars: < willvarfa> don't care, you can ignore the messages.  All it means is that ARP was
19:31:03 #corewars: < willvarfa> not able to turn the IP address into a MAC address."
19:31:21 #corewars: < willvarfa> "I believe there is a way to disable these messages, but I don't remember
19:31:21 #corewars: < willvarfa> for sure."
19:31:27 #corewars: < willvarfa> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-doc/2003-October/002392.html
19:31:34 #corewars: < joonas> ah, right. thanks!
19:31:40 #corewars:  * joonas goes looksee
19:37:00 #corewars: < joonas> I still don't get why it's even trying to do arplookup on an IP from IANA that isn't on the local network.
19:39:53 #corewars: < willvarfa> always the same address?
19:39:58 #corewars: < joonas> yes
19:40:35 #corewars: < Roy> Maybe is a standard ip lookup adress, and since it can't connect to that addres, it can't lookup
19:41:07 #corewars: < joonas> that might be.
19:41:07 #corewars: < Roy> Isn't there something about it on the routers homepage?
19:41:15 #corewars: < joonas> hang on... brb
19:45:27 #corewars: < joonas> the router isn't responding.
19:47:02 #corewars: < Roy> That isn't good.. :)
19:47:54 #corewars: < joonas> http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/incidents/2002-09/0059.html
19:48:01 #corewars: < joonas> explains about blackhole servers
19:49:17 #corewars: < Roy> That could be it..
19:49:27 #corewars: < Roy> Try DNS'ing the ip, to see what the name is
19:49:30 #corewars: < joonas> I think what that says is that the IP address that is failing is supposed to be a private address.
19:49:40 #corewars: < joonas> it's blackhole-1.iana.org
19:50:05 #corewars: < Roy> thats explains a bit
19:52:25 #corewars: < willvarfa> ah yeap
19:52:30 #corewars: < willvarfa> 10.x etc
19:53:58 #corewars: < joonas> so it looks like DNS is sometimes a little broken on my end and that's what's causing these lookups.
19:54:40 -!- will_varf [~Will@arken-16-57-57.ip-pluggen.com] has joined #corewars
19:57:20 -!- willvarfa [~Will@arken-16-57-101.ip-pluggen.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
20:01:45 #corewars: < joonas> brb
20:12:53 #corewars: < Roy> gotta move, bye!
20:12:55 -!- Roy [~roy_van_r@kf-mss-cb01-0965.dial.kabelfoon.nl] has quit []
20:13:30 #corewars: < will_varf> bye Roy
20:18:15 #corewars:  * joonas returns with a fresh pot of coffee
20:18:23 #corewars: < joonas> well cup & a thermos, anyway.
20:24:39 -!- Mizcu [Mizcu@dsl-hkigw4m4a.dial.inet.fi] has joined #corewars
20:25:44 -!- willvarfa [~Will@arken-16-57-91.ip-pluggen.com] has joined #corewars
20:27:33 -!- michal [~michal@august.V-LO.krakow.pl] has joined #corewars
20:28:02 #corewars: < Mizcu> hi michal
20:28:15 #corewars: < michal> hi
20:28:37 -!- will_varf [~Will@arken-16-57-57.ip-pluggen.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
20:37:04 #corewars: < michal> does anyone know philip thorne's email?
20:38:31 #corewars: < Mizcu> i dont remember it now
20:39:56 #corewars: < Mizcu> darn
20:40:16 #corewars: < Mizcu> it was pbt at somewhere but i just dont remember now..
20:40:26 #corewars: < michal> okay, I got it
20:41:32 -!- willvarfa [~Will@arken-16-57-91.ip-pluggen.com] has quit [Lämnar]
20:47:35 -!- Jeff_K [~sascha@dial-194-8-195-43.netcologne.de] has joined #corewars
20:47:57 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Hi
20:48:02 #corewars: < Mizcu> hi sascha
20:48:48 #corewars: < Jeff_K> Hi Joonas...
20:49:27 -!- Jeff_K [~sascha@dial-194-8-195-43.netcologne.de] has quit [using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.2.1]
20:49:40 #corewars: < joonas> hi jeff_k
21:04:36 #corewars:  * bvowk rattles joonas!
21:05:26 #corewars:  * joonas rattles
21:05:49 #corewars: < bvowk> how's it going?
21:06:45 #corewars: < joonas> fine thanks.  and you?
21:06:53 #corewars: < bvowk> pretty fair
21:07:06 #corewars: < bvowk> just got a free lunch, so life can't be that bad right?
21:07:21 #corewars: < joonas> :-D
21:07:29 #corewars: < joonas> and what did you have for lunch?
21:08:10 #corewars: < bvowk> donair
21:08:17 #corewars: < bvowk> it was quite tasty
21:08:32 #corewars: < joonas> what's a donair?
21:09:15 #corewars: < bvowk> its a pita (flat bread) with spicy meat and lettuce and a tzatziki sauce
21:09:42 #corewars: < joonas> sounds foreign
21:10:05 #corewars: < bvowk> I expect so, but I don't know where its from
21:11:01 #corewars: < bvowk> I used to live in an apartment above a donair shop and a tattoo parlor, and there was a shared air vent that made my place smell like donairs and onion rings all the time
21:11:10 #corewars: < bvowk> (no wonder I gained weight living there)
21:11:21 #corewars: < joonas> heh
21:11:34 #corewars: < bvowk> (that and on the other side lived pot dealers, and the hallway was always full of smoke)
21:12:04 #corewars: < joonas> lol. so you had the munchies all the time and the donairs to chow down on. ;)
21:12:23 #corewars: < bvowk> yes, and the guy downstairs was really happy to have regulars and gave me deep discounts :)
21:12:36 #corewars: < bvowk> it was the best bad situation you could hope for :)
21:12:45 #corewars: < joonas> :)
21:12:52 #corewars: < joonas> sounds like a blast to me. :)
21:13:28 #corewars: < bvowk> it was a pretty cool place 
21:13:41 #corewars: < joonas> was this a faculty freebie thing?
21:14:09 #corewars: < bvowk> it was on whyte ave too, so I could walk out my front door, and was within two blocks from every variety of food and alcohol
21:14:28 #corewars: < joonas> be glad you only gained weight. ;)
21:16:30 #corewars: < bvowk> heh :)
21:17:55 #corewars: < joonas> say bvowk: what's the easiest way to get 6-8 GB of memory on a commodity PC?
21:18:29 #corewars: < joonas> should be a 32 bitter.
21:18:32 #corewars: < bvowk> um
21:18:38 #corewars: < joonas> unless a 64 bitter would be cheaper.
21:18:41 #corewars: < bvowk> PAE under free would let you
21:19:01 #corewars: < joonas> what's a PAE?
21:21:01 #corewars: < joonas> physical address extension. ok
21:25:18 #corewars: < bvowk> sorry, I'll be back in one second :)
21:25:48 #corewars:  * joonas is looking up PAE related sites
21:32:38 #corewars: < bvowk> but a 32bit box that has enough dimm slots to get that much ram isn't going to be cheap.. your cheapest bet would likely be to buy an opteron
21:33:03 #corewars: < bvowk> some of the 64bit os's aren't totally polished yet.. but 64bit free is at least usable
21:33:31 #corewars: < bvowk> and its generally stable, linux emulation is working for most apps and 32bit binaries now run as well
21:33:45 #corewars: < bvowk> and you can get boards with 8 dimm slots
21:34:28 #corewars: < bvowk> and they're cheap compared to some of the big xeon rigs that would let you use that much ram in 32bit stuff
21:35:08 #corewars: < Mizcu> for me 8 slots sounds quite dim..         (but i work only with desktop systems)
21:36:05 #corewars: < joonas> well the argument I was given here was that a bunch of 32 bit systems would be cheaper than an opteron.
21:37:38 #corewars: < joonas> I don't know enough about HW costs to counter that, so that's why I wanted to know.
21:38:01 #corewars: < bvowk> well, if you want 6GB of ram, and you're working with 32bit boards, you can't buy off the shelf stuff without busting into 2GB dimms
21:38:06 #corewars: < bvowk> which are stupidly expensive
21:38:21 #corewars: < bvowk> a 2GB dimm would cost as much as an opteron and board
21:38:43 #corewars: < bvowk> and the 1GB dimms are cheap enough to give away with xmas cards these days
21:39:16 #corewars: < bvowk> so it'd be easier to buy a nice O board with 8 slots, and populate with 1GB modules (or 512 if you only need 4GB)
21:39:26 #corewars: < joonas> cool.
21:40:04 #corewars: < bvowk> I mean, dell will sell you a giant 32bit box with 32 dimm slots and multiple processors if you want, but its going to be stupidly expensive
21:40:29 #corewars: < joonas> oh, dell.  that's a curseword over here.
21:41:08 #corewars: < bvowk> hp will sell you a big 32 bit box too I'm told
21:42:19 #corewars: < joonas> ok. Dell & HP have big 32 bitters.
21:43:01 #corewars: < joonas> mmh.. so how have you found the opteron?
21:43:12 #corewars: < bvowk> but they're going to start far more expensive then a tyan O beige box
21:43:41 #corewars: < joonas> hrmph.  good news for me!
21:43:43 #corewars: < bvowk> its great, its stupidly fast in 32bit and 64bit mode, there were some warts when starting out with 64bit freebsd on the O
21:44:02 #corewars: < bvowk> but the O's have been really solid, I had one problem with a broadcom chip, but thats been fixed
21:44:31 #corewars: < joonas> what kind of problem=
21:44:32 #corewars: < joonas> ?
21:44:33 #corewars: < bvowk> 64bit freebsd has been solid for the most part, even given that its being developed ASAP
21:44:58 #corewars: < bvowk> one of the gige nics just stopped working.. so I had to get a new board
21:45:05 #corewars: < bvowk> but tyan covered that in good time
21:45:55 #corewars: < joonas> have you tried to run linux on it?
21:46:28 #corewars: < bvowk> yes, suse enterprise 64 wasn't bad, but they want like 600bux a license
21:46:51 #corewars: < joonas> ouch.
21:46:57 #corewars: < bvowk> 64bit free *should* run your linux apps tho
21:47:17 #corewars: < bvowk> either natively with a recompile or under 32bit linux emulation
21:47:19 #corewars: < joonas> (but then, this would only be 1 license for now, so it wouldn't be that bad.)
21:47:29 #corewars: < joonas> that's good news.
21:47:37 #corewars: < bvowk> and its free, and peter wemm has been incredibly helpful and responsive
21:47:49 #corewars: < bvowk> so the developers are keen to make this production ready
21:48:07 #corewars: < bvowk> (and its a tier one platform now, gets the same support as i386)
21:49:24 #corewars:  * joonas is just reading about an ugly experience with linux & opteron
21:49:30 #corewars: < bvowk> http://www.tyan.com/products/html/thunderk8w.html <-- 8 dimm slots, 2 cpus, gige and sata raid)
21:49:31 #corewars: < joonas> http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=4618
21:50:58 #corewars: < joonas> tyan doesn't give any indication of price on that page
21:51:20 #corewars: < bvowk> they're pretty affordable
21:51:34 #corewars: < bvowk> I'm looking at buying one personally for a new DB backend for my project
21:52:29 #corewars: < joonas> are PCI slots important?
21:53:08 #corewars: < bvowk> depends on what you're doing
21:53:08 #corewars: < joonas> hm.. they'd be used for the network card.
21:53:15 #corewars: < bvowk> you've got gige on board
21:53:36 #corewars: < joonas> ah, on the thunder k8w.
21:53:50 #corewars: < joonas> was looking at the tomcat k8s
21:54:03 #corewars: < bvowk> http://www.tyan.com/products/html/tomcatk8s.html 
21:54:06 #corewars: < bvowk> thats what I've got
21:54:07 #corewars: < joonas> ah, but it has a lancard too.
21:54:40 #corewars: < bvowk> I'm pretty happy with them, and the 14X opterons are pretty reasonably priced, and they've got the 1MB cache
21:55:14 #corewars: < bvowk> makes for a nice box
21:55:30 #corewars: < joonas> mind if I snip this conversation and show it to people?
21:55:33 #corewars: < joonas> well bits of it?
21:55:49 #corewars: < joonas> as kind of user testimonial.
21:56:41 #corewars: < bvowk> nope, you can include my email too if you like
21:56:56 #corewars: < joonas> thanks.
21:57:57 #corewars: < joonas> bbl
21:58:09 #corewars: < bvowk> oh, pick my brains and then leave.. I see
21:58:14 #corewars:  * bvowk is hurt
21:58:25 #corewars:  * bvowk hrmps
21:59:38 #corewars: < bvowk>  2:06PM  up 720 days,  2:01, 1 user, load averages: 0.08, 0.08, 0.08
21:59:41 #corewars: < bvowk> wee!
22:02:10 #corewars:  * joonas didn't mean to hurt bvowk's feelinsg
22:02:15 #corewars: < joonas> feelings even. 
22:02:31 #corewars: < joonas> congratulations
22:03:01 #corewars: < bvowk> did I tell you about my 3.4.3 ascension? :)
22:03:12 #corewars: < joonas> no!
22:03:16 #corewars:  * joonas is all ears
22:03:28 #corewars: < joonas> (and green with envy up front :)
22:03:29 #corewars: < bvowk> I ascended another elven wizard over the holidays
22:03:45 #corewars: < bvowk> took me 8 days, but most of that was spent visiting :)
22:03:53 #corewars: < joonas> notice anything different in 3.4.3?
22:04:07 #corewars: < bvowk> I killed the wizard 255 times, medusa 255, and the horsemen about 80ish each
22:04:28 #corewars: < joonas> aargh!
22:04:31 #corewars: < bvowk>   1   71735794  bvowk-Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha ascended to demigod-hood.       914 [986]
22:05:00 #corewars: < bvowk> I was hoping to beat up the horsemen much more, execpt I had bad boulder luck.. 
22:05:24 #corewars: < joonas> oh.  well at least you live to tell about it this time.
22:05:25 #corewars: < bvowk> I had a good collection (use a c corpse to turn things into statues, then polymorph the statues until they become boulders)
22:05:47 #corewars: < joonas> how did you keep your c fresh?
22:06:11 #corewars: < bvowk> I was doing really well, I had 2/3 of the horsement in boulder forts, I was working on pestilence, when I had a mishap with a fire giant with a wand of striking
22:06:47 #corewars: < bvowk> and pestilence went through all my AoL's in a hurry so I just took my ascension :)
22:07:27 #corewars: < joonas> what, no unicorn horn?
22:07:30 #corewars: < bvowk> I wished for the c corpse when I got to the plain
22:07:32 #corewars: < bvowk> plane
22:07:47 #corewars: < joonas> ah, right.  makes sense.
22:07:54 #corewars: < bvowk> it was getting cursed too often and I was running out of holy water
22:08:26 #corewars:  * joonas wonders about two-weaponing a c corpse and Magicbane
22:08:29 #corewars: < bvowk> I lost magicbane somewhere (it eats curses)
22:08:43 #corewars: < bvowk> a balrog with a whip I believe
22:09:16 #corewars: < bvowk> but I had a boulder drop down in the right spot to keep death out of trouble so I couldn't go looking for it afterwards
22:09:26 #corewars: < joonas> oh.
22:09:46 #corewars: < bvowk> still, not a bad ascension..
22:09:46 #corewars:  * joonas feels foolish
22:10:04 #corewars: < joonas> can't two-weapon as a wizard
22:10:15 #corewars: < bvowk> it was funny tho, because I was sitting watching TV on xmas eve, and said, ok, one game of nethack won't hurt, and 8 days later :)
22:10:22 #corewars: < joonas> lol
22:10:33 #corewars: < bvowk> sometimes you just have everything go your way :)
22:10:58 #corewars: < bvowk> I had to make my own SDSM tho, I didn't get a wish until the castle, then they were popping up all over
22:10:58 #corewars: < joonas> so, about 3.4.3... any noticeable diffs?
22:11:20 #corewars: < bvowk> not really.. I think they changed scoring somehow, I had thought I'd be about 200M points
22:11:51 #corewars: < joonas> maybe to make the 2G ascensions really *mean* something?
22:11:53 #corewars: < bvowk> but I left the tally of kills at the wifes grandparents place
22:12:12 #corewars: < bvowk> so I'm going by memory and I might have been wrong
22:12:34 #corewars: < joonas> do you do sokoban every time?=
22:12:38 #corewars: < bvowk> yeah, they had a patch they were going to commit that reduced the points you get every time you kill something
22:13:00 #corewars: < bvowk> yup :), I've memorized the solves for all the levels (man, thats sad)
22:13:11 #corewars: < joonas> heh
22:13:45 #corewars: < bvowk> I use the first level of soko for my stashes, because the eye will teleport you there and its no teleport, so you can stash an icebox full of c corpses and lure the demon princes there
22:13:47 #corewars: < joonas> I can't solve the level with the boh in it.
22:14:04 #corewars: < bvowk> thats a tough one
22:14:52 #corewars: < joonas> does the eye help on the planes?
22:14:55 #corewars: < bvowk> I didn't see demogargon this time :/
22:15:16 #corewars: < bvowk> it provides insanely great magic point recovery
22:15:25 #corewars: < bvowk> but no teleporting on the planes
22:16:27 #corewars: < bvowk> I was saving yeenoghu as a statue so I could summon demogorgon when I had enough c corpses, but he got shattered by a monster with a wand of striking (that happens way too much)
22:16:47 #corewars: < bvowk> I think next time I'll have to stash my precious unique statues in bags so that doesn't happen
22:16:59 #corewars: < joonas> heh. was just about to ask that.
22:17:19 #corewars: < joonas> so how do you get Y back when the statue shatters?
22:17:56 #corewars: < bvowk> you don't
22:18:00 #corewars: < bvowk> he's unique
22:18:19 #corewars: < bvowk> if I stone him and he gets broken he's gone forever afaik
22:18:32 #corewars: < bvowk> wizard will come back as many times as you like tho
22:18:43 #corewars: < joonas> even above & beoynd 255?
22:19:17 #corewars: < bvowk> yup
22:19:41 #corewars: < bvowk> the wizard keeps coming back until you get to the plane of earth, and then he's there to give you a book of dig
22:19:48 #corewars: < bvowk> and he doesn't come back again 
22:22:23 #corewars: < bvowk> (put a then in there somewhere)
22:22:38 #corewars: < bvowk> you should play nethack on 3jane joonas :)
22:22:48 #corewars: < bvowk> if the transatlantic lag isn't too bad
22:22:55 #corewars: < bvowk> it'd be nice to have some new names in the score file
22:23:08 #corewars: < joonas> :)
22:23:45 #corewars: < joonas> the lag was pretty bad when I tried it.
22:24:31 #corewars: < joonas> if you excuse me for a minit, my Big Run has finished and needs to be dealt with.
22:24:38 #corewars: < bvowk>  No  Points     Name                                                   Hp [max]
22:24:38 #corewars: < bvowk>   1   71735794  bvowk-Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha ascended to demigod-hood.       914 [986]
22:24:38 #corewars: < bvowk>   2    5567270  bvowk-Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha ascended to demigod-hood.       356 [356]
22:24:38 #corewars: < bvowk>   3    5126154  bvowk-Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha ascended to demigod-hood.       373 [525]
22:24:38 #corewars: < bvowk>   4    3693286  bvowk-Wiz-Elf-Mal-Cha ascended to demigod-hood.       387 [387]
22:24:46 #corewars: < bvowk> there's a place open in the top 5 :)
22:25:49 #corewars: < joonas> what's the # for 10K points?
22:59:54 -!- Roy [~roy_van_r@kf-mss-cb01-0965.dial.kabelfoon.nl] has joined #corewars
23:00:00 #corewars: < Roy> hello
23:00:20 #corewars: < Mizcu> hi Roy
23:01:07 #corewars: < Roy> No news about the tournament?
23:01:16 #corewars: < Roy> Fizmo was planning on publishing it tonight
23:02:12 #corewars: < Mizcu> havent seen all day
23:09:13 #corewars: < bvowk> feh
23:13:43 #corewars:  * Roy is curious, but thinks Zul won
23:17:07 #corewars:  * Roy is off to bed, cheers!
23:17:21 #corewars: < joonas> bye
23:17:46 -!- Roy [~roy_van_r@kf-mss-cb01-0965.dial.kabelfoon.nl] has quit []
23:21:33 #corewars:  * bvowk wonders
23:25:51 #corewars: < joonas> man wait3
23:25:55 #corewars: < joonas> damn
23:29:37 #corewars:  * bvowk wonders
23:29:43 #corewars: < bvowk> whats up joonas
23:30:30 #corewars: < joonas> reaping dead children
23:30:41 #corewars: < joonas> without waitpid
23:31:10 #corewars: < bvowk> I see
23:31:19 #corewars: < joonas> and you?
23:35:45 #corewars: < bvowk> just getting ready to head home for the day
23:36:06 #corewars: < bvowk> where I will work on my neural network pruning algorithm
23:36:36 #corewars: < joonas> what does it prune?
23:36:49 #corewars: < bvowk> I'm having saturation problems, I need to fix my scaling algorithm for data so it has nonlinear edges
23:37:01 #corewars: < bvowk> nodes
23:37:40 #corewars: < joonas> you're not using the fpu?
23:38:21 #corewars: < joonas> ...nevermind that. no relevance.
23:39:32 #corewars: < joonas> I bought Linux Core Kernel Commentary the other day.
23:40:12 #corewars: < bvowk> I have no idea what that is :)
23:40:13 #corewars: < joonas> quite an interesting read as it explains a bunch of acronyms used in the code that aren't defined in the source.
23:40:38 #corewars: < joonas> it's a book with (most of) the 2.2.5 kernel source and a running commentary explaining bits of it.
23:41:58 #corewars: < bvowk> thats kinda spiffy
23:44:39 #corewars: < joonas> the bits about the memory manager in particular are enlightening.  without the book, I'm having a hard time following the mm subsystem.
23:47:11 #corewars: < joonas> how long have you worked on the neural net code?
23:51:14 -!- Mizcu [Mizcu@dsl-hkigw4m4a.dial.inet.fi] has quit []
23:53:02 #corewars:  * joonas should concentrate on core war in #corewars
23:53:15 #corewars: < joonas> bye
23:53:16 -!- joonas [jpihlaja@kruuna.helsinki.fi] has quit [ircII2.8.2-EPIC3.004+Kasi --- Bloatware at its finest.]
--- Log closed Tue Jan 13 00:00:42 2004